Robbing a Bank

[SharpShep 19]

13 minutes ago, DLimit said:

Executing each and every single hostage is NOT an ethical idea based on the premise that hostages are utilized as a means towards negotiating deals with Law enforcement officers. In the process, one could kidnap a hostage within the get-away vehicle in order to prevent Law enforcement officers from utilizing violent means towards arresting your character. Otherwise, it may result in "civilian casualties".

Read through the posts i said to kill the hostages but for a few that are your men as plants and to go when there is almost no one there so you only have to kill and control a few people.

[DLimit 167]

4 minutes ago, SharpShep said:

Read through the posts i said to kill the hostages but for a few that are your men as plants and to go when there is almost no one there so you only have to kill and control a few people.

Simple tactic: Request for the hostages to remain huddled against the wall in a cluttered group. However, if ONE hostage conduct any sudden movements, EACH and every hostage (except for two) shall be executed.

Utilize false threats in order to instill fear into the hostages considering that one hostage does not intend to be held accountable for the deaths of every hostage within the bank. The individual would prefer to be classified as a "hero" rather than a "Cause of Death".

[SharpShep 19]

9 minutes ago, DLimit said:

Simple tactic: Request for the hostages to remain huddled against the wall in a cluttered group. However, if ONE hostage conduct any sudden movements, EACH and every hostage (except for two) shall be executed.

Utilize false threats in order to instill fear into the hostages considering that one hostage does not intend to be held accountable for the deaths of every hostage within the bank. The individual would prefer to be classified as a "hero" rather than a "Cause of Death".

Yes but this is a game people take risks they won't in real life and there is no way to fix that. So enjoy a group of people who want to be the hero.

[DLimit 167]

10 minutes ago, SharpShep said:

Yes but this is a game people take risks they won't in real life and there is no way to fix that. So enjoy a group of people who want to be the hero.

The "heroic" hostage would be displayed as the "cause of death" for twenty innocent civilians within the tabloids, hahaha.

Indeed, it is the main reason that one should actually execute the entire group, excluding 1-2 individuals, if one human being intends to function as a hero.

[Jinx 166]

6 hours ago, SharpShep said:

7 hours ago, SharpShep said:

1 hour ago, SharpShep said:

Yes but this is a game people take risks they won't in real life and there is no way to fix that. So enjoy a group of people who want to be the hero.

First off my point is that a crime should work how it is in real life if your careful and take your time and are not noticed it should not just be auto detected by the game for the police. It should have to be discovered or witnessed by a real person or a cop. Sorry that realism is a problem for you.

and your right they won't stay idle which is why i said i will kill them to remove that problem. Because hostages in game won't act like real ones. Also was why i had a backup plan of letting my own people out to flank the robbers or just have people wait around corner. 

So thank you for proving my point on why you need to murder all the hostages because they will not sit idle like real ones.

 

 

Also i never said that someone deserves to be killed in RL for trying to stop a robber. Though it is a somewhat predictable outcome which is why police don't advise ever doing it. 

I was only stating a very brutal and effective way to rob a bank in a video game. Since the main reason to not commit murder is an ethical one. So it does not apply to video games since instead of loss and sadness you bother someone a little at most.

 As for any servers with real jail i don't think they will be very popular criminals so the cops won't have anything to do and won't like it either. They will attract trolls like hell since the people who like killing people for no reason love getting a reaction and people who hate getting killed will live there. Which is why i will avoid them since i like to play my character will they be bad? Oh god yes but there will be reason not madness to it.

7 hours ago, SharpShep said:

First off my point is that a crime should work how it is in real life if your careful and take your time and are not noticed it should not just be auto detected by the game for the police. It should have to be discovered or witnessed by a real person or a cop. Sorry that realism is a problem for you.

and your right they won't stay idle which is why i said i will kill them to remove that problem. Because hostages in game won't act like real ones. Also was why i had a backup plan of letting my own people out to flank the robbers or just have people wait around corner. 

So thank you for proving my point on why you need to murder all the hostages because they will not sit idle like real ones.

 

 

 

The only point you are, in fact, proving is that you know as little about robbing banks as you do about structuring a video game. The whole idea of the 'flag' represents all the other means by which you can be identified if you rob a bank.....for example CCTV coverage in many modern towns and cities can cover up to a two mile radius outside the town, let alone inside the bank/store itself. As any seasoned Blagger would tell you, the only thing you achieve by discharging your weapon during a robbery is that you authorize the use of deadly force by law enforcement, so far from increasing your chances of success, all you really mange is to increase the chances of getting yourself killed. The main reason not to kill anyone is not an ethical one, it's a logistical one. The whole idea behind armed robbery is the THREAT that a weapon poses, once you use that weapon, it then becomes a reality.

Realism is not a problem for me, but people like yourself who think that all the other players around are there to enable you, well that's a problem. I quoted you at length, because all you are actually saying is that you want robbing a bank to be easy for you. The mechanic of flagging a player for a crime represents all the unknown variables involved when you commit the act, variables that a game cannot simulate. Players who put time and effort into these enterprises will stand a much better chance than someone who's entire plan is 'kill anyone who see's me and I'll get away with it'.

[SharpShep 19]

9 hours ago, Jinx said:

The only point you are, in fact, proving is that you know as little about robbing banks as you do about structuring a video game. The whole idea of the 'flag' represents all the other means by which you can be identified if you rob a bank.....for example CCTV coverage in many modern towns and cities can cover up to a two mile radius outside the town, let alone inside the bank/store itself. As any seasoned Blagger would tell you, the only thing you achieve by discharging your weapon during a robbery is that you authorize the use of deadly force by law enforcement, so far from increasing your chances of success, all you really mange is to increase the chances of getting yourself killed. The main reason not to kill anyone is not an ethical one, it's a logistical one. The whole idea behind armed robbery is the THREAT that a weapon poses, once you use that weapon, it then becomes a reality.

Realism is not a problem for me, but people like yourself who think that all the other players around are there to enable you, well that's a problem. I quoted you at length, because all you are actually saying is that you want robbing a bank to be easy for you. The mechanic of flagging a player for a crime represents all the unknown variables involved when you commit the act, variables that a game cannot simulate. Players who put time and effort into these enterprises will stand a much better chance than someone who's entire plan is 'kill anyone who see's me and I'll get away with it'.

First learn to read i said if your not seeing committing a crime and are not noticed a white flag should not work a cctv camera would count well within that as being noticed so my point still stands.

Second it's a game not real life real so different things work. As you said earlier people won't just stay idle which is not very realistic since almost everyone tends to just cower in a robbery. So i don't know why you keep bring up realism and then trying to ignore it. Because it is a game the cops will be more willing to shoot since there won't be any downside for shooting an armed criminal like 9 hours of paper work and mandatory therapy to get put back to work.

Last i can just wait and observe when the least cops are online on average normally given time and day and plan around coming and doing it then so we outnumber them and it works in rp since i am just checking when the least cops on on duty.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by SharpShep

[Topshotz357 21]

We could always do like in payday2 kill everyone n grab the cash n go

[sGtDeathunter 10]

Ok let's get some solutions for your problems guys:

1.People trying to be a hero

That's easy: just don't allow guns to be carried within the bank. They could place some Metal Detector at the entrance and some lockers to lock the guns away.

2. The Robbers are killing all the hostages

If the robber would start shooting hostages, he would basically allow the police to use lethal ways to solve the problem. In addition to that, the Robbers won't have any kind of pressure, holding the cops from just rushing in.

3.Cops just start shooting the Robbers inside the bank

The survival of the hostages is the number 1 priority. If a policemen would start shooting without the permission of the police chief or smth,he could just get a long-term ban from the police force.

With the implementation of the metal detector the normal visitors would not be able to play the hero and the robbers would need to think of a new way to start the robbery

[SharpShep 19]

5 minutes ago, sGtDeathunter said:

Ok let's get some solutions for your problems guys:

1.People trying to be a hero

That's easy: just don't allow guns to be carried within the bank. They could place some Metal Detector at the entrance and some lockers to lock the guns away.

2. The Robbers are killing all the hostages

If the robber would start shooting hostages, he would basically allow the police to use lethal ways to solve the problem. In addition to that, the Robbers won't have any kind of pressure, holding the cops from just rushing in.

3.Cops just start shooting the Robbers inside the bank

The survival of the hostages is the number 1 priority. If a policemen would start shooting without the permission of the police chief or smth,he could just get a long-term ban from the police force.

With the implementation of the metal detector the normal visitors would not be able to play the hero and the robbers would need to think of a new way to start the robbery

1 .That seems to work and make a fair amount of sense to just now allow guns inside a bank if you want to enter the legal way. 

2 and 3. So your saying that the cops knew the robbers had a group of hostages but did not the exact point they where hell and they killed one or two in a show of force. Saying if we even think you are trying to enter or take the band in any way we will kill them all.

The cops would make a move knowing it would there is a very good chance the hostages would die and a small chance they would be able to stop the robbers form killing them given the information they have.

in this situation lets just assume the robber have disabled any cameras with hacking or just destroying them and are smart enough to keep the hostages away from the window.

[Topshotz357 21]

I have done rp banks and have had cops by the balls and they broke rp to stop us example arma 2islandlife bank I had 4men+me armed with akm and a bomb  we had a littlebird outside we had 6hostages I told cops fuck off any cops mess with us or stop us the hostages die they fall back I leave 1 guy with the bomb n ak locked in the vault with hostages  we start to take off with the money we get sniped everyone died n so did hostages

[sGtDeathunter 10]

@SharpShep

Why would the robbers kill people to show off their force? It would give them a higher punishment. Even if they get shot by the police they could just try to revive him in the end and just lock them up

Breaching into the bank would just be the last choice for the cops. They would need to find a peaceful solution to the situation. As I said the main goal of the Police SHOULD BE to rescue the hostages inside the bank

[Topshotz357 21]

4 minutes ago, sGtDeathunter said:

@SharpShep

Why would the robbers kill people to show off their force? It would give them a higher punishment. Even if they get shot by the police they could just try to revive him in the end and just lock them up

Breaching into the bank would just be the last choice for the cops. They would need to find a peaceful solution to the situation. As I said the main goal of the Police SHOULD BE to rescue the hostages inside the bank

You say peaceful but the real way it goes down in gamed is bad guys in bank have hostages cops show up grab tactical vantage points so they cant leave then say give up then when they say no fuck you the copsgrow tired of it and kill them all and this is if the cops rped the situation  cops play as cops to get action have power and kill things  I have met over 200people in rp games as cop and only about 30 like to act like a real cop

[sGtDeathunter 10]

@Topshotz357 as soon as the put the killing of the robbers over the life of the hostages the leading officer and or the cops that participated in the breach should just get kicked out of the police.If people try to break the system, the system breaks them. Simple as that

[Topshotz357 21]

19 minutes ago, sGtDeathunter said:

@Topshotz357 as soon as the put the killing of the robbers over the life of the hostages the leading officer and or the cops that participated in the breach should just get kicked out of the police.If people try to break the system, the system breaks them. Simple as that

Yeh its nice to hope and think for those things but since its all ran by people it probably won't well die as criminals and cops will act tough and btw this is coming from someone who plays heavily as cop and criminal in arma2-3

[SharpShep 19]

17 minutes ago, sGtDeathunter said:

@Topshotz357 as soon as the put the killing of the robbers over the life of the hostages the leading officer and or the cops that participated in the breach should just get kicked out of the police.If people try to break the system, the system breaks them. Simple as that

That would be great but that does not do anything for the real problem which is a whole pile of dead people. So the Robber can basically play violent and try to catch the police off guard or risk having to deal with people with hero fantasies on the cop side.

Also if you kick people out of the police it might be hard to fill the ranks considering the criminals will have no such problem filling there own ranks with violent thugs. 

The best system would be for the cops to have goals placed in hud so they can see what they are supposed to do. With reward like medals are positive mark towards promotions for doing well and punishments like getting fired being demoted or just having to do only parking duty for a set amount of real world hours.

and there could be tricky information like anyone in the bank without a mask is marked as hostage but they could be a plant with a gun or trying to get out with money. So they have to do stuff like remember to keep order and not let them slip off.

and on the other side criminals could have  different set of huds info like a bar with goals to keep quiet based of info they have collected.and if they then if the cops come there could be something that tell them how much trouble they are in if they are caught.

[SharpShep 19]

6 minutes ago, Topshotz357 said:

Yeh its nice to hope and think for those things but since its all ran by people it probably won't well die as criminals and cops will act tough and btw this is coming from someone who plays heavily as cop and criminal in arma2-3

Yes but your forgetting your the top guy in the police will have to answer to a elected in game person who can fire then if they base it off real politics. So the police can and will be held accountable by people pissed off they got shot due to police idiocy. 

[Topshotz357 21]

The crimals wont do well simce it labels them for crimes witness or not

[SharpShep 19]

24 minutes ago, Topshotz357 said:

The crimals wont do well simce it labels them for crimes witness or not

Yes what was this post in reference too the whitelist system or the thing i was saying with goals being listed.

[Topshotz357 21]

33 minutes ago, SharpShep said:

Yes what was this post in reference too the whitelist system or the thing i was saying with goals being listed.

Are you trying to be a troll?

[SharpShep 19]

22 minutes ago, Topshotz357 said:

Are you trying to be a troll?

Yes  i am a troll which is why i am showing you every reason you are wrong using logic and facts like how the devs have said there will not be any corrupt cops and then showing you why police not acting like police would have in game solutions through the politic systems. Since no one would like the cops being idiots. would be punished since it would be a easy way to gain votes. 

You on the other hand are clearly not trolling by saying stuff not quoting and making sure there in no context in your post at ll

1 hour ago, Topshotz357 said:

The crimals wont do well simce it labels them for crimes witness or not

Makes no sense at all without context are you talking about the post from the devs that list outstanding crimes will be listed under known criminals  because i think that is what masks are for.

Any it is funny you mention that at all since the post about a system that auto knows murders. Has only been in reference to someone murdering someone and wanting join the police sometime after that. At least as far as i have seen but i fully admit to not reading every tweet and dev post

Edited December 8, 2016 by SharpShep

[Topshotz357 21]

6 minutes ago, SharpShep said:

Yes answering i am a troll which is why i am showing you every reason you are wrong using logic and facts like how the devs have said there will not be any corrupt cops and then showing you why police not acting like police would have in game solutions through the politic systems. Since no one would like the cops being idiots. would be punished since it would be a easy way to gain votes. 

You on the other hand are clearing not trolling by saying stuff not quoting and making sure there in no context in your post at ll

Makes no sense at all without context are you talking about the post from the devs that list outstanding crimes will be listed under known criminals  because i think that is what masks are for.

Any it is funny you mention that at all since the post about a system that auto knows murders. Has only been in reference to someone murdering someone and wanting join the police sometime after that. At least as far as i have seen but i fully admit to not reading every tweet and dev post

I think you need to back off and pick on someone else 

[SharpShep 19]

First off i am not picking on you i just happen to have much better informed view points on the subjects then you and am capable of showing my view point in a understandable way. You on the other hand are acting like a child you come onto the a place to discuss possibility's and view points and get angry when people don't agree with you. You have accused me of trolling for asking me to clarify what your statement meant and are now trying to play the victim card because you can't think of a single reasonable argument to defend your points of view. 

[Jinx 166]

47 minutes ago, SharpShep said:

First off i am not picking on you i just happen to have much better informed view points on the subjects then you and am capable of showing my view point in a understandable way. You on the other hand are acting like a child you come onto the a place to discuss possibility's and view points and get angry when people don't agree with you. You have accused me of trolling for asking me to clarify what your statement meant and are now trying to play the victim card because you can't think of a single reasonable argument to defend your points of view. 

Like many other people in this thread I've long since grown both bored and tired of having to read your 'facts' so I'm going to reply to this then slap you on ignore. Your 'facts' and your being 'well informed' are nothing of the kind, nor do you show a point of view in an understandable way & people keep disagreeing with you simply because of that, you talk rubbish.

Identity, changing what it means to be a mmorpg

Did you read that, or did you just go straight to the forums to annoy everyone? Payday & GTA5 will, in all probability, continue to do heists better than Identity will......as far as game mechanics go. Human interaction has, and always will be, the heart and soul of the mmo, yet here you are giving us the 'low down' on how banks should be robbed which is exactly the way banks are robbed in Payday and GTA5 when you're playing against NPC's. Here's a newsflash for you, this is not either of those games, nor is it Altis Life or Arma3 or any variation thereof. Asylum will provide us with the tools so that WE can make a difference, not so we can do things the same mind numbing way they've been done before.

There will not be any bad cops, or bad criminals, just bad players, & on many private servers I have no doubt such players will be weeded out. Many of these servers will be role play servers, and just to clarify......by role platy I'm talking about people who have taken a lot of time with their char's story and development & see themselves as a part of a picture, not someone who thinks he's role playing because he's decided that on a particular day he'll be a Bank Robber for a bit of fun.

I'm hoping that Bank Robberies will be exciting events, not something that happens ten times a day until people get bored with them, I want them to be something the whole city talks about, something that will ADD to peoples daily virtual lives. The Bank full of dead people that you keep talking about, will do none of those things.

[Mayglin 7]

9 minutes ago, Jinx said:

Like many other people in this thread I've long since grown both bored and tired of having to read your 'facts' so I'm going to reply to this then slap you on ignore. Your 'facts' and your being 'well informed' are nothing of the kind, nor do you show a point of view in an understandable way & people keep disagreeing with you simply because of that, you talk rubbish.

Identity, changing what it means to be a mmorpg

Did you read that, or did you just go straight to the forums to annoy everyone? Payday & GTA5 will, in all probability, continue to do heists better than Identity will......as far as game mechanics go. Human interaction has, and always will be, the heart and soul of the mmo, yet here you are giving us the 'low down' on how banks should be robbed which is exactly the way banks are robbed in Payday and GTA5 when you're playing against NPC's. Here's a newsflash for you, this is not either of those games, nor is it Altis Life or Arma3 or any variation thereof. Asylum will provide us with the tools so that WE can make a difference, not so we can do things the same mind numbing way they've been done before.

There will not be any bad cops, or bad criminals, just bad players, & on many private servers I have no doubt such players will be weeded out. Many of these servers will be role play servers, and just to clarify......by role platy I'm talking about people who have taken a lot of time with their char's story and development & see themselves as a part of a picture, not someone who thinks he's role playing because he's decided that on a particular day he'll be a Bank Robber for a bit of fun.

I'm hoping that Bank Robberies will be exciting events, not something that happens ten times a day until people get bored with them, I want them to be something the whole city talks about, something that will ADD to peoples daily virtual lives. The Bank full of dead people that you keep talking about, will do none of those things.

Very well said. I'm with @Jinx

[SharpShep 19]

6 minutes ago, Jinx said:

Like many other people in this thread I've long since grown both bored and tired of having to read your 'facts' so I'm going to reply to this then slap you on ignore. Your 'facts' and your being 'well informed' are nothing of the kind, nor do you show a point of view in an understandable way & people keep disagreeing with you simply because of that, you talk rubbish.

Identity, changing what it means to be a mmorpg

Did you read that, or did you just go straight to the forums to annoy everyone? Payday & GTA5 will, in all probability, continue to do heists better than Identity will......as far as game mechanics go. Human interaction has, and always will be, the heart and soul of the mmo, yet here you are giving us the 'low down' on how banks should be robbed which is exactly the way banks are robbed in Payday and GTA5 when you're playing against NPC's. Here's a newsflash for you, this is not either of those games, nor is it Altis Life or Arma3 or any variation thereof. Asylum will provide us with the tools so that WE can make a difference, not so we can do things the same mind numbing way they've been done before.

There will not be any bad cops, or bad criminals, just bad players, & on many private servers I have no doubt such players will be weeded out. Many of these servers will be role play servers, and just to clarify......by role platy I'm talking about people who have taken a lot of time with their char's story and development & see themselves as a part of a picture, not someone who thinks he's role playing because he's decided that on a particular day he'll be a Bank Robber for a bit of fun.

I'm hoping that Bank Robberies will be exciting events, not something that happens ten times a day until people get bored with them, I want them to be something the whole city talks about, something that will ADD to peoples daily virtual lives. The Bank full of dead people that you keep talking about, will do none of those things.

Yes your right lesser servers will spread where the entire system of player choice is undone by what mods want to do since they will have final say since they are paying for it and i will never understand why people want that. .

It seems like we always find a group of small minded people like you on every game people who want to dictate their own proper way to play the game and preach on a soap box and that's why you can go hide in your little box. 

As for me i will be playing with the people that can handle real rp with the long and deep stories. Where players can handle that someone playing as a criminal may have a disregard for human life and that actions can and will be taken in it that they may not like. The kind of rp that mirrors the fact life is not fare your choices do not matter. Because stuff happens and their are epic story lies with real outcome.

I get your are used to the type of rp call the mods if you don't like anything and take a hour long talk to decide what happens ahead of time controlled rp and that fine there is room for both.

So yeah i will be on the real servers and you can hide in your box with the other people who don't play real rp games.