Complete lack of direction?

[greenhound 3]

I first heard about this project 4 years ago and the trailer sparked a lot of hope. I loved multiplayer games that had an 'RPG' edge even though technically there was nothing that made it revolve around levels and grinding etc - games that just felt like a real world. Arma life servers, SA:MP cops and robbers servers all had that edge and they had the most vibrant communities and I genuinely thought games like that would be made into large successful standalone games sooner rather than later and become the future of MMOs. Just games that are a little bit like real life except give you the options to play a more exciting life. Games where entrepeneurship and genuine leadership are encouraged rather than just grinding to get a fixed amount of items to sell on the auction that can magically be accessed from across the game world. Games where things don't teleport, games where money doesn't come out of thin air because you did some mission or something, games that have a healthy balance of monotonous reality (i like sims) with the  chance that absolutely incredible things can come out of the players, the economy and each of their individual hustles colliding, and I was already sold.

 

I guess I figured the first step would be - creating a massive open world. I'm already questioning your choice to use Unreal Engine for that endeavour as I'm not sure how you're going to deal with the size limits without editing the engine itself or putting random loading screens in, and generally UE is badly optimized for huge maps, from my limited knowledge of game development. Instead you seem to be focusing on 'modules', where seemingly the individual experiences are all completely seperated from eachother, as if they are just minigames in a branch of forced scenarios. 'SWAT' shouldn't be a minigame. It should be a scenario that arises naturally in a world when someone working as a police dispatcher gets a call from another player, or perhaps investigators have discovered a threat or a drug dealing ring. The SWAT team would then drive there and figure out how to approach it themselves - not click a button to teleport into what I assume is another map and follow a list of predefined objectives in a shooter game just like any other. Racing shouldn't be a minigame. Races should be organised independently by the players. In the open world. That doesn't seem to exist. So my first question is, why is the game being segmented, stripping all immersion, persistence and flow from what could be an incredible world of colliding mechanics?

 

Second point - you appear to be developing this game vertically rather than horizontally. What I mean by that is you are focusing a lot of your attention into creating small areas with a lot of detail - you are creating what appears to be incredible gun mechanics, wildlife and scenery, but you don't even have the skeleton of the game NEARLY done yet. You should build the entire map - albeit a simple version of it and then you can add to it as you go. You should implement a very simple cop system, one or two ways to make money as a criminal and maybe a couple civillian ways to make money. A basic housing system that doesn't involve 100 different options with stunning visual fidelity and quirky gimmicks like drawing on canvas (nobody cares about these gimmicks, they're cool but they should be afterthoughts). Just some cars to drive. I feel like everything is being completely overdone and you are not focusing on the world with opportunities for authentic player-driven gameplay - you are focusing on the depth of mechanics and the glittery sheen on top. Seeing how much work you have put into getting weapon mechanics, bullet penetration etc I'm imagining when you do a vehicle reveal we will see that you've implemented like 50 different vehicles with 200 different mod options with hyper realistic damage modelling when quite frankly that isn't at ALL what people are excited about. We aren't interested in the asset design and the mechanic design, we're interested in the design of social, economic and the design of a world that allows you to genuinely feel like you are playing as a different person with their own hustle and aspirations. Make a large, mostly empty world with not much to do but give it room for people to find purpose in it and you will have redeemed the idea most people got when they first saw the overview in 2015. Just the simple cops and robbers mechanic has had millions of interesting situations arise in RP games that weren't even originally designed to be roleplay games. When it is segmented into forced minigames with objectives - well just look at APB. Need I say more. Put down some cop cars and some mechanics to assert authority and hierarchy and the players will figure out the rest.

 

I just feel that putting 4 years into the town square, all it's gimmicks and options, and then thinking it's a good idea to release it to show what you've achieved so far is incredibly misguided and seems entirely unaware of what potential people saw when the game was first pitched in that youtube video. If you put this much depth into every small aspect of the game I genuinely believe you won't make a playable game by 2030 as an indie team. Start working horizontally. Make the game playable, not glittery. 

[dagtag 201]

21 minutes ago, greenhound said:

Instead you seem to be focusing on 'modules', where seemingly the individual experiences are all completely seperated from eachother, as if they are just minigames in a branch of forced scenarios.

these modules are just there to give you a taste of the actual experience, in the beta and full game these modules will be combined into one experience.

22 minutes ago, greenhound said:

'SWAT' shouldn't be a minigame. It should be a scenario that arises naturally in a world when someone working as a police dispatcher gets a call from another player, or perhaps investigators have discovered a threat or a drug dealing ring. The SWAT team would then drive there and figure out how to approach it themselves - not click a button to teleport into what I assume is another map and follow a list of predefined objectives in a shooter game just like any other.

look at first point I made. this isn't how it is going to work in the full game, this is just to give you a taste for the combat.

23 minutes ago, greenhound said:

Racing shouldn't be a minigame. Races should be organised independently by the players. In the open world. That doesn't seem to exist. So my first question is, why is the game being segmented, stripping all immersion, persistence and flow from what could be an incredible world of colliding mechanics?

again, same points as before.

the rest of your post seems to contain the same misinformation. map design is not done by the programmers, so you can work on both the map and code at the same time. the skeleton of the game are the mechanics of the modules. the beta will be the first actual version with the whole experience/map

[greenhound 3]

Isn't it a complete waste of resources to pile things into these minigames if they will eventually be scrapped? Are you trying to make a game or are you desperately trying to make a proof of concept so you get funded?

[dagtag 201]

1 hour ago, greenhound said:

Isn't it a complete waste of resources to pile things into these minigames if they will eventually be scrapped? Are you trying to make a game or are you desperately trying to make a proof of concept so you get funded?

 

I already told you the systems that are being developed for the modules will be utilized in the beta/full game. while the modules will stop existing, the work that was put into them will be combined into a full game. no resources are going to waste because of this.

[4thdesign 18]

WOW.... someone just deleted my post when i asked about a time driven goal for when the full game will be released!!!!

It wasn't a difficult question at all, but I guess you decided its not important and deleted my post. Great community spirit!

Well done guys, way to go. 

[dagtag 201]

4 minutes ago, 4thdesign said:

WOW.... someone just deleted my post when i asked about a time driven goal for when the full game will be released!!!!

It wasn't a difficult question at all, but I guess you decided its not important and deleted my post. Great community spirit!

Well done guys, way to go. 

 

as it stands right now the modules will be a year apart, the swat module in 2019, the racing module in 2020 and the beta in 2021. these are estimates, and not to be taken as an actual promise. this is also public information on the steam page

[LuckyDuck 1,444]

Basically this @4thdesign

Quote

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?

“We currently expect one year of development between each module release, as well as the full Identity release. This time will be greatly affected by our resources; as more people purchase Identity our team grows and development will hasten. Help us spread the word!

With our current pace, we estimate that the SWAT module will be complete in late 2019, the racing module in 2020 and the feature-complete Identity beta will begin in 2021. These are not to be taken as release dates but as our current best estimates.”

https://store.steampowered.com/app/792990/Identity/

[Shadow765 149]

3 hours ago, dagtag said:

as it stands right now the modules will be a year apart, the swat module in 2019, the racing module in 2020 and the beta in 2021. these are estimates, and not to be taken as an actual promise. this is also public information on the steam page

 

debateable dates,

if it took 4 years to make a social module then its going to take 8 years to make the other modules

[dagtag 201]

3 minutes ago, Shadow765 said:

debateable dates,

if it took 4 years to make a social module then its going to take 8 years to make the other modules

 

it took them 4 years to redo the town square twice, and as I have said before, a lot of the base systems have already been made + they have more developers now than they had the first year. these are all things that should be accounted for. development time isn't as easy to calculate as you make it out to be and it depends on a lot of variables.

[Shadow765 149]

Just now, dagtag said:

it took them 4 years to redo the town square twice, and as I have said before, a lot of the base systems have already been made + they have more developers now than they had the first year. these are all things that should be accounted for. development time isn't as easy to calculate as you make it out to be and it depends on a lot of variables.

 

I mean if its hard to make a social module then I don't have anything to say lol.

Like I said on previous post, all these factors should have been taken into account before making the game

[dagtag 201]

2 minutes ago, Shadow765 said:

I mean if its hard to make a social module then I don't have anything to say lol.

Like I said on previous post, all these factors should have been taken into account before making the game

 

and this isn't that post. this isn't about accounting factors, you are going off topic with this and bringing it back to the topic you were discussing last time. please try to stay on topic

[Shadow765 149]

Just now, dagtag said:

and this isn't that post. this isn't about accounting factors, you are going off topic with this and bringing it back to the topic you were discussing last time. please try to stay on topic

 

Sorry but you keep repeating yourself in every thread. please go back to my threads to see my answers.

thanks

 

[LuckyDuck 1,444]

13 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

all these factors should have been taken into account before making the game

Developers can only take into account for somethings, but the developers cannot predict the future of what might or not happen. 

[Shadow765 149]

8 hours ago, LuckyDuck said:

Developers can only take into account for somethings, but the developers cannot predict the future of what might or not happen. 

 

I agree, but clearly you need a bigger developer team to make a game of this immensity. 

[LuckyDuck 1,444]

15 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

I agree, but clearly you need a bigger developer team to make a game of this immensity. 

Maybe, but that is not all entirely true because anyone who has the passion of something and is determined for something, then they can complete such a project. No matter how small or big, if you have passion and determination I think you can get it done.

[BlazinBender 38]

23 hours ago, LuckyDuck said:

Maybe, but that is not all entirely true because anyone who has the passion of something and is determined for something, then they can complete such a project. No matter how small or big, if you have passion and determination I think you can get it done.

 

This is the real truth of the matter! Bravo LuckyDuck! I think some people like that shadow123 or whatever, dude is too young to understand, I think, this basic point. Maybe with his immaturity and young age impatience is natural, and like most kids today, just wants everything now, now, now. I hope once he grows up and has to live in the real world with the rest of us, him and people like him will realize that as the old saying goes, "Rome was not built in a day". 

Also, just want to send a thank you to all the community moderators coming in here to provide some clarity on these issues, because although redundant, and having been addressed countless times before in many posts, the topic keeps being brought up. I for one am fatigued at the redundancy of it all. So Thanks! 

FYI There are many games out there. I don't understand how people can obsess over one game. I think people just like to complain in blog posts for the frick of it. I'm sure their motives will not be truly expressed and instead will cling on to statements such as "we were promised this" and "the devs said that" or "this date and and that date", maybe even going as far as "no work has been done there is no progress blah, blah, blah." Nonsense all of it really. The proof is in the pudding, but acknowledging the facts and embracing the truth, which is that this dev team has done what other teams wont, and that is being transparent as much as possible, acknowledging this will leave them with no argument to make, so people like shadow90210 and others will just ignore them and post their ramblings. I for one am done engaging with such immature behavior. Good luck Community Moderators, and Godspeed. 

Patience little ones.

[Shadow765 149]

12 hours ago, BlazinBender said:

This is the real truth of the matter! Bravo LuckyDuck! I think some people like that shadow123 or whatever, dude is too young to understand, I think, this basic point. Maybe with his immaturity and young age impatience is natural, and like most kids today, just wants everything now, now, now. I hope once he grows up and has to live in the real world with the rest of us, him and people like him will realize that as the old saying goes, "Rome was not built in a day". 

Also, just want to send a thank you to all the community moderators coming in here to provide some clarity on these issues, because although redundant, and having been addressed countless times before in many posts, the topic keeps being brought up. I for one am fatigued at the redundancy of it all. So Thanks! 

FYI There are many games out there. I don't understand how people can obsess over one game. I think people just like to complain in blog posts for the frick of it. I'm sure their motives will not be truly expressed and instead will cling on to statements such as "we were promised this" and "the devs said that" or "this date and and that date", maybe even going as far as "no work has been done there is no progress blah, blah, blah." Nonsense all of it really. The proof is in the pudding, but acknowledging the facts and embracing the truth, which is that this dev team has done what other teams wont, and that is being transparent as much as possible, acknowledging this will leave them with no argument to make, so people like shadow90210 and others will just ignore them and post their ramblings. I for one am done engaging with such immature behavior. Good luck Community Moderators, and Godspeed. 

Patience little ones.

 

First of all posting these GIF pictures is very cringy( and makes you look like a 5 year old).

I'm not a kid btw, and spell my name right.

you're another delusional fan who has no idea what you are talking about. If you are ok that it took 4 years to make a social module, good for you, but I am not ok with that. You can say whatever you want, but your opinion means nothing to me.

Stop calling people "immature" or "kids" because they do not agree with you, this is getting ridiculous. Waiting 4 years for a not even a game is more than enough time needed.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Shadow765

[BlazinBender 38]

41 minutes ago, Shadow765 said:

You can say whatever you want, but your opinion means nothing to me.

Then why quote my post then?

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

[Shadow765 149]

12 minutes ago, BlazinBender said:

Then why quote my post then?

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

 

I'm entitled to reply to your opinion, all I am saying is I won't take your opinion personally.

[BlazinBender 38]

Seriously though, how can anyone say there is lack of direction? There is abundant proof to claim the has been extensive work done. There are people employed at this company. It is a business. Employees at any job need to perform or they will loose the job. Likewise, again, the employee is expecting employment with some longevity and some measure of job security. Maybe the salary? other benefits? Personally, I don't imagine many people out there would want a job that couldn't provide some of these basic requirements. Secondly, if one of their employees ever wants to find a new opportunity maybe with a more recognized industry name (like Take Two, Bethesda ,Team 7, CD Projekt Red, Namco, etc, or work for Microsoft or Sony, for example. Nintendo?) on a first party title, I imagine that employee will be thinking about their positive impact during their time at Asylum Entertainment. All the employees, maybe at least most, want whats best for themselves and the company. The project they are part of will reflect that. The world is not perfect. When you get knocked down, you learn to get up, and keep going, keep moving forward, regardless or maybe even because of the naysayers. Sometimes it's plan "B" on deck. Sometimes plan "C". If Identity hits plan "Z", I'm keeping my eyes open for plan "AA". 

Say what you will about this topic. I'm done. Especially when the argument falls on deaf ears. 

Peace out here. Catch ya'll on the next one.

[Theezakj 50]

On 11-6-2019 at 3:47 PM, BlazinBender said:

This is the real truth of the matter! Bravo LuckyDuck! I think some people like that shadow123 or whatever, dude is too young to understand, I think, this basic point. Maybe with his immaturity and young age impatience is natural, and like most kids today, just wants everything now, now, now. I hope once he grows up and has to live in the real world with the rest of us, him and people like him will realize that as the old saying goes, "Rome was not built in a day". 

Also, just want to send a thank you to all the community moderators coming in here to provide some clarity on these issues, because although redundant, and having been addressed countless times before in many posts, the topic keeps being brought up. I for one am fatigued at the redundancy of it all. So Thanks! 

FYI There are many games out there. I don't understand how people can obsess over one game. I think people just like to complain in blog posts for the frick of it. I'm sure their motives will not be truly expressed and instead will cling on to statements such as "we were promised this" and "the devs said that" or "this date and and that date", maybe even going as far as "no work has been done there is no progress blah, blah, blah." Nonsense all of it really. The proof is in the pudding, but acknowledging the facts and embracing the truth, which is that this dev team has done what other teams wont, and that is being transparent as much as possible, acknowledging this will leave them with no argument to make, so people like shadow90210 and others will just ignore them and post their ramblings. I for one am done engaging with such immature behavior. Good luck Community Moderators, and Godspeed. 

Patience little ones.

 

agree, rome was not built in a day, but asylum is taking 4 years to build one building of this rome 😂😂😂😂