So... long time no here, was it a "scam"?

[LuckyDuck 1,444]

16 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

So $1 million dollars in funds just to make a small square area map with no content inside of it?

No, it should of done. That is right. But the devs are human and all humans make mistakes. The devs had hit a brick wall in development because they had to re-do the module, and also most of the funding came within the last 2 and a half years. The other funding was very low and it was slow development due to that lack of funds. However if the devs had the funding they got within the last few years then, we would have seen this module 2 years ago atleast. Yes they need to adapt of course.

You may think there is no content inside it, but there is but small. The Town Square was always said to be small and a social module with low content. 

16 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

We already expect that the game won't be anywhere similar to GTA (due to a large difference in funds)

Yes you may think that but the way people act shows another story for a lot of people. Another factor to what you point out above (Funds) is Man Power. You could also say Experience in making a first game. (Modders, creating their own game for the first time).

16 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

But like I said they should have at least completed 2/3 of the game already.

2/3  Modules or close to all 3 modules yes, I would agree if they had a lot more funding at the beginning, instead of a few years in. Also if they had better experience. ( What I explained above) then it would have been further ahead in my opinion. However it is not like that.

16 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

I love how people bring the funding issue, it shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah but funds is everything. Having the funds in the beginning could make a difference. Also knowing who to get / hire is a key factor on it also. Games are expensive nowadays, compared to years ago. It is also a growing area, and so will rise more likely still. No one can really tell you how much a game will cost because how do they know what it will cost as the cost can rise or lower at a given time.

17 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

They even have the audacity to release the town square module to steam and make people pay $30 USD.

The price of that is done by Paratus. Also that $30 is actually the amount for everything while the game at full release right now is half the price as for the waiting. the $30 is what the 3 Modules, Beta and full game costs. I personally might not agree that it is the right price for the modules but it is not anyone's decision but of 1 person to choose. Right or Wrong, he feels that is a good price for the early access and full game. If Steam had a separation of the arly access and full release I would think $15 was right for 3 modules and the beta. At the same time if you look back at the kickstarter pledge prices. $25 CAD roughly £17 back then and roughly $29 CAD for £17 now. Would you be happy that you pledged more or the same amount as people did today on steam? I am not sure what the rate was for USD - CAD back then but I can say if the price has to be $30 USD for it to be atleast higher than the kickstarter then I agree with it. However, I don't think (as my personal opinion) that $30 is the best price. It might be a necessary evil to keep up funds for the game though.

[Shadow765 149]

4 hours ago, LuckyDuck said:

No, it should of done. That is right. But the devs are human and all humans make mistakes. The devs had hit a brick wall in development because they had to re-do the module, and also most of the funding came within the last 2 and a half years. The other funding was very low and it was slow development due to that lack of funds. However if the devs had the funding they got within the last few years then, we would have seen this module 2 years ago atleast. Yes they need to adapt of course.

You may think there is no content inside it, but there is but small. The Town Square was always said to be small and a social module with low content. 

Yes you may think that but the way people act shows another story for a lot of people. Another factor to what you point out above (Funds) is Man Power. You could also say Experience in making a first game. (Modders, creating their own game for the first time).

2/3  Modules or close to all 3 modules yes, I would agree if they had a lot more funding at the beginning, instead of a few years in. Also if they had better experience. ( What I explained above) then it would have been further ahead in my opinion. However it is not like that.

Yeah but funds is everything. Having the funds in the beginning could make a difference. Also knowing who to get / hire is a key factor on it also. Games are expensive nowadays, compared to years ago. It is also a growing area, and so will rise more likely still. No one can really tell you how much a game will cost because how do they know what it will cost as the cost can rise or lower at a given time.

The price of that is done by Paratus. Also that $30 is actually the amount for everything while the game at full release right now is half the price as for the waiting. the $30 is what the 3 Modules, Beta and full game costs. I personally might not agree that it is the right price for the modules but it is not anyone's decision but of 1 person to choose. Right or Wrong, he feels that is a good price for the early access and full game. If Steam had a separation of the arly access and full release I would think $15 was right for 3 modules and the beta. At the same time if you look back at the kickstarter pledge prices. $25 CAD roughly £17 back then and roughly $29 CAD for £17 now. Would you be happy that you pledged more or the same amount as people did today on steam? I am not sure what the rate was for USD - CAD back then but I can say if the price has to be $30 USD for it to be atleast higher than the kickstarter then I agree with it. However, I don't think (as my personal opinion) that $30 is the best price. It might be a necessary evil to keep up funds for the game though.

 

Realistically,

they knew they had $1M funds.

so if it wasn't enough for them why did they start the project in the first place?

I'm just saying they just wasted their time, investors money and especially the buyers time just because of the insufficient funding. We are not supposed to be the accountant here.

 

Also, you forgot "The company knew it wouldn't get a kickstarter of like $100M+, so they need to adapt with the current budget they have."

 

And yes, they had to redo the module BUT

 

they had over 35040 hours to redo the modules!

 

How many hours did the developers pour in per week? because it seems like they didn't work as much with all this progress.

 

Heck, If I was entrusted with $1m I would be working 24/7 

 

There should be 0 excuses. 

 

This company is a complete joke and should be investigated

 

Why didn't they announce right here on this forums the lack of funds and developers? I see they like hiding information

 

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Shadow765

[LuckyDuck 1,444]

4 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

Realistically,

they knew they had $1M funds.

They never had 1 million at a given time, That amount is over a long period of time.

4 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

so if it wasn't enough for them why did they start the project in the first place?

They started a project because this game is their dream, like it is for the customers/ pledgers. That is what Kickstarter is for, they need funds to help kickstart the development and getting more resources for a project idea.

4 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

I'm just saying they just wasted their time, investors money and especially the buyers time just because of the insufficient funding. We are not supposed to be the accountant here.

When you back a kickstarter project, there are risks you are taking because there is not 100% that it will be made fully. A lot of projects dont get as far as Identity has. Also Steam Early access is another way to say we are developing the game but for us to get more resources we are going to need more funding and basically testers during early stages.

4 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

Also, you forgot "The company knew it wouldn't get a kickstarter of like $100M+, so they need to adapt with the current budget they have."

Oh I never quoted and directly answered like the rest but I addressed that. All developers who kickstart a project know that they might not reach so much money, that is why it is a kickstarter. They set a lower goal they find will be high enough for them to get started with the project. Then the crowd funding continues on there own game site so they can add to that while allowing for those who missed the initial kickstarter to pledge still.

4 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

And yes, they had to redo the module BUT

they had over 35040 hours to redo the modules!

How many hours did the developers pour in per week? because it seems like they didn't work as much with all this progress.

You may think it is as easy as 1,2,3. but You don't just hit 1 brick wall in game development unless you are lucky, because i is usually multiple brick walls which slow development down. If you fix 1 thing, you can break another. If you update the game, it could bring old bugs back. If you have a bug, you have to find it's roots and hope it is not in the foundations of the game itself.

4 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

Heck, If I was entrusted with $1m I would be working 24/7 

That is a figure that they raised over the years of development and likely never had close to the number being in the bank at 1 given point. (I dont know what was there or not, I am guessing that they never had it at a given time because the Out goings for the development. Also the devs are human and need breaks, they work in the office 9 - 5 Monday to Friday. Those who are free lance work on stuff assigned to them in their own time with as they don't only free lance work from Asylum but for other game companies too.

4 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

Why didn't they announce right here on this forums the lack of funds and developers? I see they like hiding information

When? After the kickstarter, because that is what crowd funding is for, it is to get more funds for the game development. That is also self explanatory that they are working with small amount of funds otherwise they wouldn't launch in Steam Early Access. It is not hiding information.

4 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

There should be 0 excuses. 

This company is a complete joke and should be investigated

They are still developing the game and you say they should be investigated for what? Really? there are loads more games in steam early access and you think because these have slow development that they should be investigated. Well There are a lot more games which also have slow development too.

[Shadow765 149]

1 hour ago, LuckyDuck said:

They never had 1 million at a given time, That amount is over a long period of time.

They started a project because this game is their dream, like it is for the customers/ pledgers. That is what Kickstarter is for, they need funds to help kickstart the development and getting more resources for a project idea.

When you back a kickstarter project, there are risks you are taking because there is not 100% that it will be made fully. A lot of projects dont get as far as Identity has. Also Steam Early access is another way to say we are developing the game but for us to get more resources we are going to need more funding and basically testers during early stages.

Oh I never quoted and directly answered like the rest but I addressed that. All developers who kickstart a project know that they might not reach so much money, that is why it is a kickstarter. They set a lower goal they find will be high enough for them to get started with the project. Then the crowd funding continues on there own game site so they can add to that while allowing for those who missed the initial kickstarter to pledge still.

You may think it is as easy as 1,2,3. but You don't just hit 1 brick wall in game development unless you are lucky, because i is usually multiple brick walls which slow development down. If you fix 1 thing, you can break another. If you update the game, it could bring old bugs back. If you have a bug, you have to find it's roots and hope it is not in the foundations of the game itself.

That is a figure that they raised over the years of development and likely never had close to the number being in the bank at 1 given point. (I dont know what was there or not, I am guessing that they never had it at a given time because the Out goings for the development. Also the devs are human and need breaks, they work in the office 9 - 5 Monday to Friday. Those who are free lance work on stuff assigned to them in their own time with as they don't only free lance work from Asylum but for other game companies too.

When? After the kickstarter, because that is what crowd funding is for, it is to get more funds for the game development. That is also self explanatory that they are working with small amount of funds otherwise they wouldn't launch in Steam Early Access. It is not hiding information.

They are still developing the game and you say they should be investigated for what? Really? there are loads more games in steam early access and you think because these have slow development that they should be investigated. Well There are a lot more games which also have slow development too.

 

3-4 years is more than enough time to get more things done as of now.

Yes, crowdfunding is a risk, it's not only about the game but its also trusting the developers with your money.

if they lack funding I find it absurd that they don't announce it, yet they still keep going with a lower budget. Also, there is a big lack of communication between the devs and the supporters (like releasing a dev blog every 3 months)

Yes, game developing is hard, but after 3-4 years we ONLY get a Townsquare module (which is like 1/1000th of the game) is very absurd, not to mention the game is super buggy.

 

And they release the town square module to steam fund the game, I understand that completely, but the town square module is incomplete, what I mean by that is that it's not even in alpha, you can't even do anything on it except playing chest and customizing your home. this is like a 3 months work stress test

 

So if you do some quick maths, if it takes you 4 years to make 1/10th of the game, then it probaly will take more than 10 years to finish the whole thing up

 

 

They announced the Townsquare in 2016 btw.

 

I saw you mentioning about bugs, but what's the point of fixing bugs if the game isnt even playable?, im 100% sure people would like more content.

 

I rather play on something with more content that has bugs, rather than playing something that has literally no content and has bugs

 

Coming directly from kickstarters

 

The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project. 

to **complete**

 

So they took CA$ 187,859 from kickstarters, now they are at $1M and they still cant finish the game. This has to be a joke

 

Coming from kickstarter

It's really too early to say with any certainty, although we feel that two years time will be quite enough to reach a feature complete state. We will most definitely not release an incomplete beta product;

So it's now 2019 and we are still here, in the town module (the most incomplete thing i ever seen).

Edited June 4, 2019 by Shadow765

[dagtag 201]

15 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

3-4 years is more than enough time to get more things done as of now.

luckyduck has already explained to you why they didn't get more done, you keep on recycling the same arguments that have been replied to already...

15 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

Yes, crowdfunding is a risk, it's not only about the game but its also trusting the developers with your money.

if they lack funding I find it absurd that they don't announce it, yet they still keep going with a lower budget. Also, there is a big lack of communication between the devs and the supporters (like releasing a dev blog every 3 months)

Yes, game developing is hard, but after 3-4 years we ONLY get a Townsquare module (which is like 1/1000th of the game) is very absurd, not to mention the game is super buggy.

first you say they need to adapt with their lower budget, which they did. now you are saying its absurd they are still working with the budget they have? and yes, communication might be at a low point but what is there to communicate about despite patch notes and progress, not that much.

and regarding the 3-4 years statement again, it has already been explained twice why they dont have more. the town square module isn't just 1/1000th of the game, its the whole basis, and an important one at that. a lot of things can be built off from it now that the base is done.

despite the elevator glitch and the bug where you spawn under the map(havent experienced that one myself, just saw that it was happening to some people). there aren't many bugs anymore. a majority of the bugs have been fixed.

15 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

And they release the town square module to steam fund the game, I understand that completely, but the town square module is incomplete, what I mean by that is that it's not even in alpha, you can't even do anything on it except playing chest and customizing your home. this is like a 3 months work stress test

it has been mentioned many times that the town square module would be a social module and that it would be very small. this isn't news, this was announced a long time ago.

15 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

So if you do some quick maths, if it takes you 4 years to make 1/10th of the game, then it probaly will take more than 10 years to finish the whole thing up

you are leaving out that this "1/10th" is the base of the game. and you are again leaving out the information that has been told to you repeatedly, the town square module was redone twice over those 4 years of time. not to mention that the first year they had even less devs. these all count into your "quick maths" and you forgot to include them.

15 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

They announced the Townsquare in 2016 btw.

 

I saw you mentioning about bugs, but what's the point of fixing bugs if the game isnt even playable?, im 100% sure people would like more content.

 

I rather play on something with more content that has bugs, rather than playing something that has literally no content and has bugs

the point of fixing these bugs is to make the development easier in the future, you cant just expect them to add more content and then go ahead and fix bugs that they were already aware of before making that extra content. also watch out with the word "literally" as the module does have things to do, yes they might not seem significant. but furnishing your apartment, creating your character, growing weed etc. are all very important building stones that are taken care of now. it will be easier for the developers to add more customization to the character creation because the foundation is already there.

15 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

Coming directly from kickstarters

 

The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project. 

to **complete**

 

So they took CA$ 187,859 from kickstarters, now they are at $1M and they still cant finish the game. This has to be a joke

you seem to keep on ignoring points that have already been made to you. this isn't all the money they raised because these figures dont include the cut that kickstarter got, the declined cards, the refunds. and like lucky has also said, this is 1 million they received over 4 years, not 1 million they had all at the same time.

also, who said that they cant finish the game? it will just take longer because they dont have the manpower nor the funds of AAA studios, you cant expect a small team like this to develop at the same rate as these big companies do.

15 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

Coming from kickstarter

It's really too early to say with any certainty, although we feel that two years time will be quite enough to reach a feature complete state. We will most definitely not release an incomplete beta product;

So it's now 2019 and we are still here, in the town module (the most incomplete thing i ever seen).

I am going to be a bit picky here, but what we have now is an alpha, yes I know I am focusing a bit too much on technicalities atm but technically they didn't lie. the beta will not be an incomplete product. and yes they might have massively underestimated the time it would take them to develop the game, but this can happen,  this was before they ran into these brick walls and after running into one a lot can change.

all in all, you seem to keep repeating your same arguments over and over again even after a moderator replies to them, yes it is not fun to wait, and yes, people would enjoy it more if there was a lot of content, but the fact of the matter is that development takes time. please take the time to read what we have told you so that this doesnt relapse into a discussion with the same arguments again.

[Shadow765 149]

3 hours ago, dagtag said:

luckyduck has already explained to you why they didn't get more done, you keep on recycling the same arguments that have been replied to already...

first you say they need to adapt with their lower budget, which they did. now you are saying its absurd they are still working with the budget they have? and yes, communication might be at a low point but what is there to communicate about despite patch notes and progress, not that much.

and regarding the 3-4 years statement again, it has already been explained twice why they dont have more. the town square module isn't just 1/1000th of the game, its the whole basis, and an important one at that. a lot of things can be built off from it now that the base is done.

despite the elevator glitch and the bug where you spawn under the map(havent experienced that one myself, just saw that it was happening to some people). there aren't many bugs anymore. a majority of the bugs have been fixed.

it has been mentioned many times that the town square module would be a social module and that it would be very small. this isn't news, this was announced a long time ago.

you are leaving out that this "1/10th" is the base of the game. and you are again leaving out the information that has been told to you repeatedly, the town square module was redone twice over those 4 years of time. not to mention that the first year they had even less devs. these all count into your "quick maths" and you forgot to include them.

the point of fixing these bugs is to make the development easier in the future, you cant just expect them to add more content and then go ahead and fix bugs that they were already aware of before making that extra content. also watch out with the word "literally" as the module does have things to do, yes they might not seem significant. but furnishing your apartment, creating your character, growing weed etc. are all very important building stones that are taken care of now. it will be easier for the developers to add more customization to the character creation because the foundation is already there.

you seem to keep on ignoring points that have already been made to you. this isn't all the money they raised because these figures dont include the cut that kickstarter got, the declined cards, the refunds. and like lucky has also said, this is 1 million they received over 4 years, not 1 million they had all at the same time.

also, who said that they cant finish the game? it will just take longer because they dont have the manpower nor the funds of AAA studios, you cant expect a small team like this to develop at the same rate as these big companies do.

I am going to be a bit picky here, but what we have now is an alpha, yes I know I am focusing a bit too much on technicalities atm but technically they didn't lie. the beta will not be an incomplete product. and yes they might have massively underestimated the time it would take them to develop the game, but this can happen,  this was before they ran into these brick walls and after running into one a lot can change.

all in all, you seem to keep repeating your same arguments over and over again even after a moderator replies to them, yes it is not fun to wait, and yes, people would enjoy it more if there was a lot of content, but the fact of the matter is that development takes time. please take the time to read what we have told you so that this doesnt relapse into a discussion with the same arguments again.

 

They never announced the lack of developers in the announcement, which it’s a vital information for backers, not only do we need to know the status of the game but the company as well

 

Speaking of monetary issues, the money raised in Kickstarter should have been enough to complete the game. Because according to kickstarter the funding goal is the minimum amount of money requires to COMPLETE the game. So how come they need more money to complete the game. If that is the case, then you are totally contradicting what a funding goal means to kickstarter. It doesn’t matter if the $1M was raised in 4 years, what matters is that $183k should be enough to finish the game 

 

Secondly, why did two staff retire (which I only seen on reddit Motown and someone) why didn’t they announce their retiring on the announcements? 

 

This is not only about the game it’s about the company as well.

 

You can’t just post dev blogs every 2 months, you also need to post company information because we don’t know what the hell is going on, so most people will just assume things.

 

Listen I was a sophomore when I backed the game I think it totaled around $100+, now I’m already going to university ( engineering) and still I can’t play the fully fininished game

 

If they can’t do something then they better well say it, you can’t just put unrealistic expectations to backers and then not follow through. For example I know to make this specific game will cost a lot , but why not minimize some expectations to fit the budget ?

 

For example when I backed blackwake, they raised enough money from kickstarter to finish the game, because that is how kickstarter works. They probably did good pre planning. The alpha was actually a almost fully functional complete game.

 

 

 

 

[dagtag 201]

1 minute ago, Shadow765 said:

They never announced the lack of developers in the announcement, which it’s a vital information for backers, not only do we need to know the status of the game but the company as well

there is a small amount of developers, not a "lack" of one.

2 minutes ago, Shadow765 said:

Speaking of monetary issues, the money raised in Kickstarter should have been enough to complete the game. Because according to kickstarter the funding goal is the minimum amount of money requires to COMPLETE the game. So how come they need more money to complete the game. If that is the case, then you are totally contradicting what a funding goal means to kickstarter. It doesn’t matter if the $1M was raised in 4 years, what matters is that $183k should be enough to finish the game

they dont need extra money to complete the game, they need it to complete it in a certain period of time.

4 minutes ago, Shadow765 said:

Secondly, why did two staff retire (which I only seen on reddit Motown and someone) why didn’t they announce their retiring on the announcements? 

their retiring is pinned in the discord, they did announce it, just not here.

5 minutes ago, Shadow765 said:

If they can’t do something then they better well say it, you can’t just put unrealistic expectations to backers and then not follow through. For example I know to make this specific game will cost a lot , but why not minimize some expectations to fit the budget ?

when did they ever say they cant do something. and who is saying they aren't following through. they followed through on what they were going to put in the town square, and they even added stuff. they are following through on the guns, and so are they on anything else. I dont know where are getting this information from.

 

[Shadow765 149]

1 hour ago, dagtag said:

there is a small amount of developers, not a "lack" of one.

they dont need extra money to complete the game, they need it to complete it in a certain period of time.

their retiring is pinned in the discord, they did announce it, just not here.

when did they ever say they cant do something. and who is saying they aren't following through. they followed through on what they were going to put in the town square, and they even added stuff. they are following through on the guns, and so are they on anything else. I dont know where are getting this information from.

 

 

Still, even with a small amount of developers, if it took 4 years to make just a simple map, character customization. then I am very worried

The kickstarter money should cover all the expenses necessary (if they are short in staff, they can hire new developers), if they put in a $180k funding goal.

Everything should had been taking into account when managing the funding goal. 

You mean by they needed extra money to pay for developers to speed up the process? well they should have figured out that in the first place before setting a funding goal of $180k

 

Why not hire more developers?? I still dont understand.

 

Still someone on discord told me that every year they are releasing a module, so I wonder when the full game is going to be done because this is unacceptable 

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Shadow765

[LuckyDuck 1,444]

16 hours ago, Shadow765 said:

Still, even with a small amount of developers, if it took 4 years to make just a simple map, character customization. then I am very worried

Current version of map was done with in the last 2 and half years as they had to redo the design of the Town Square.

 

Also Kickstarter games never use the amount they set as a goal to reach but they always use a lot more than that goal. It is not realistic for devs to set the goal too high because they don't receive any money until the goal is reached and the campaign has ended. However, that being said the goal was 150k and they reached $180k but backers are not charged until they accept the charge. This included many of the big kickstarter backers and so the devs didnt receive 180k but also there is a fee kickstarter takes.

Developers are not cheap.

[Shadow765 149]

7 hours ago, LuckyDuck said:

Current version of map was done with in the last 2 and half years as they had to redo the design of the Town Square.

 

Also Kickstarter games never use the amount they set as a goal to reach but they always use a lot more than that goal. It is not realistic for devs to set the goal too high because they don't receive any money until the goal is reached and the campaign has ended. However, that being said the goal was 150k and they reached $180k but backers are not charged until they accept the charge. This included many of the big kickstarter backers and so the devs didnt receive 180k but also there is a fee kickstarter takes.

Developers are not cheap.

 

Well, the funding goal means the amount of money to complete the game, yes they can have extra money just in case. but $180k should be the baseline of funds to complete the game.

Yes developers are expensive, but if they want to make a game of this magnitude then they should have re-considered making the game.

 

Not to mention I heard they also had investors or something

Edited June 6, 2019 by Shadow765

[LuckyDuck 1,444]

1 hour ago, Shadow765 said:

Well, the funding goal means the amount of money to complete the game, yes they can have extra money just in case. but $180k should be the baseline of funds to complete the game.

Goal was $150k CAD, amount shown raided on kickstarter was roughly $180k. Devs never received 180k as some pledgers never got charged and also the amount the devs got had a fee taken too.

[Shadow765 149]

2 hours ago, LuckyDuck said:

Goal was $150k CAD, amount shown raided on kickstarter was roughly $180k. Devs never received 180k as some pledgers never got charged and also the amount the devs got had a fee taken too.

 

They also had investors.

Like I said they should have managed the funding goal much better, I've seen some kickstarters with a funding goal of $500k+. Some exceeded those goals. All Im saying its not impossible. Besides, even $150k is not enough for a game of this magnitude. Im curious why they would pick only $150k, when the whole project raised over $1.4M + investors.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Shadow765