Identity Insider #3 - Gangs and Warfare

[Paratus 2,230]

The latest Identity Insider, Gangs and Warfare, is here! We're changing up the Insider format to bring you more information at a much quicker pace. In fact, you'll be getting multiple Insiders every month until we've covered most the core features of Identity.

Today's Insider is about gangs and the systems which surround them.

Find the Insider details on the "About" page of our website or, if you're lazy, click this here link.

[Dopeyplayz 1]

Where is the Dev Blog?

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Dopeyplayz

[Paratus 2,230]

1 minute ago, Dopeyplayz said:

Where is the Dev Blog?

The next dev blog goes out Thursday (tomorrow).

[Nikolo 3]

How close are we to the release?

[Cstove 374]

5 minutes ago, Nikolo said:

How close are we to the release?

 

Close 

[Cstove 374]

Rumor has it the next insider will be out about prison! 

[Genesai 298]

1 hour ago, Paratus said:

or, if you're lazy, click this here link.

 

Page not found. Good job.

 

Great, it works after pressing CTRL+F5. *rolls eyes*

Edited August 22, 2018 by Genesai

[JoelKeys 412]

So no video?

[Cstove 374]

1 hour ago, JoelKeys said:

So no video?

 

It was never supposed to be a video.  The devs never said it would be a video.  What they said was in the future they wanna start making the dev blogs in video form.

[JoelKeys 412]

6 hours ago, Cstove said:

It was never supposed to be a video.  The devs never said it would be a video.  What they said was in the future they wanna start making the dev blogs in video form.

 

The last Identity Insider was in video form. We still don't have a dev blog. It is not unreasonable to expect more from this. They put off a dev blog to write a more specific dev blog.

[Difficultylevel 2]

So cartels read like a disaster waiting to be released. Always on PVP 24/7? 

Because there's a fat chance in hell of holding a HQ 24/7 if there's no lock ala eve online. So far, more information only leads to far many more questions. Bare bones info is in no way useful. As for wars between gangs, are there limits on the spoils? If not, then the obvious aim is to take 100% of turf in every war declared. I can't help but feel like this is a dev wishlist/fairy tale that hasn't been bull ringed to tackle the inevitable paradoxes or extremes these systems will create.

Edit: more initial feedback.

Let's review the details.

1. Comradery.

Identity is all about working together with your friends, and gangs are the social structure geared towards crime. You can belong to only one gang at any time, so choose where your loyalty lies.

[OK, cool, no different than the likes of eve, presenting the opportunity for espionage?]

Your gang has a full rank structure and the leaders can control access levels for each member based on that rank. As your gang grows, it can also unlock additional perks for all members.

[So like BDO etc. gangs will farm to improve and unlock upgrades but what are the perks? Stats aka gear or in-game functionality?]

The gang leadership can designate any home owned in the world as the HQ, giving access to all members of the gang. Hang out with your gangmates and stockpile weapons, drugs and anything else you can get your hands on.

[So will input into gang improvement be measured? ala Rend or will we get free loaders skims gear?]

Your HQ, like your personal homes, can also be used for respawning on death. This makes it an important rally point when *#!% hits the fan!

[Being able to designate any property as the HQ? How often? I can foresee gangs moving next door to the HQ of a different gang for fast spawn during raid/wars if we can flip bases without cooldowns or penalties, such as losing all bonuses for a fixed time period (24-48hrs).]

 

2. Turf.

Take control of city neighbourhoods with gang turf zones. While cartels control substances across the world of Identity, the gangs who dominate a neighbourhood have direct influence over criminal organizations in that area, such as drug dealers.

[Are their limits between Turf ownership and Cartels? If not, there's no reason for all gangs to form a single cartel and own everything, defeating the purpose of the mechanic. Which leads to limits on gang sizes, are there any?]

Lookouts in the area will spot rival gangs in the streets of your turf and text message members of your gang in the area. Controlling gangs get access to a safe house in the area, tightening their hold.

[So if you have turf you get an HQ and if you're a gang you can use any property as an HQ, assuming not in someone else turf? if so, it locks out late comers as all land is owned turf, if not then it's going to be very messy.]

Beyond this, gangs are painted as a closed system. Where are the Cops, the Law? This should be a three way fight. Gangs fight for turf and Cops fight to eliminate turf.

 

3. Cartels.

Cartels are conflict areas which are controlled by one gang at any time, providing the owners with control over trade and trafficking of their related substance throughout all the land.

[So, this sounds great but has no detail on how to acquire them or more importantly how to hold onto them?]

Make no mistake about it, cartels are for only the most hardened of gangs. The areas surrounding cartels are stress zones, and you're entirely vulnerable in these combat areas.

To the victor goes the spoils. The cartel zone is a functional HQ for the current owners.

[Will actions of cartel owners trigger missions for cops and other gangs? i.e. escort/protect vs. track and trace vs. hijack/assassinate?]

 

4. Warfare

Dominate gangs who cross your path and prove your strength. Declare war on your rivals and hunt them down.

[What's the dividing line between griefing and gameplay? How often can we declare wars? If a gang declares war, are the cartels included ala alliances?]

Gang members who are at war are completely vulnerable to one another through the stress system, and so you need to be on the lookout at all times. Prey on your enemies until they submit to your demands.

[What does submit to your demands mean? Sounds like wooly bollocks as far as game design. How do you win a war? X kills, X cash disrupted? if there's no definable measure to win a war, then there's no reason to ever end them, as they allow for open 24/7 pvp on the server. Do wars cost money? How do Cops get involved, you know the forgotten part of this triad?]

When declaring war on another gang, the other gang must accept the spoils set by the agressor. The spoils can include cash, turf, real-estate and more. When one side has had enough and ends the war, they forfeit those spoils to the stronger gang.

[So if a doesn't accept b's offer there is no war, so nothing changes and the world gets stale. what's the point? Again, there should be external triggers such as stealing revenue or killing members. unquantifiable game design is bad game design.]

In Identity, most items people carry can be taken if they're killed. What's theirs, is yours. War is hell.

[it's PvP and to be expected that loot is lost but it means everyone needs a 'floor' ala Escape for Tarkov or gangs/players will get to a point of being broke and gearless.]

Edited August 23, 2018 by Difficultylevel

[Paratus 2,230]

I do agree there's a lot more information on the gang system to be had, so I'll address your concerns.

Comradery

The perks that can be unlocked for your gang are more convenience bits and cosmetics. Identity is being consciously designed in a way that should minimize the need to "grind". You won't feel the need to unlock these perks and many aren't things that you could grind if you wanted to.

The gang HQ is designated when a gang is formed and must be a location in the world. Apartments are not valid HQs. We're still fine-tuning the time between HQ changes, but it's going to be quite long -- days, at least.

The storage in the HQs is controlled by the rank hierarchy. Some people can have access to store items, but not remove them, and so on.

There seems to be confusion on the mechanic, here. Gangs are cartels; cartels are not collections of gangs. Thus, one gang functions as a cartel when it has control of a cartel zone. I can see why you'd think of it as an alliance, given what a cartel is in reality, although for gameplay purposes the one gang "controls" the cartel.

Any house can be used as a gang HQ, and the turf area it's in (if any) is unrelated. Turf doesn't lock anyone out from the region, but instead adds convenience, some additional income for the gang, and can be used to track rival gangs easier. All land is also not turf controlled; it's only within the cities.

The turf safehouse is not a home that can be owned by other players outside of controlling that turf.

As for the police interaction with turf, the police aren't there to eliminate the turf regions. Instead, they can negate the benefits of owning turf if they control the region with effective law enforcement. The income produced by the turf zone is based on illegal activity, so the police can directly influence it's effectiveness.

The cartel owners will have direct influence over the production, transportation and sale of the substances that they control. They don't trigger "missions", but instead affect the related gameplay outside in more fluid and natural ways.

There is a short cooldown on war declarations, but they can't be used as a griefing mechanic because they're consensual. The other gang must accept the war, and either gang can end the war at any time. If a gang is being overwhelmed, it's up to them to either hide from their rivals or to end the war.

Wars are won when one side is tired of being being attacked and ends the war, as described above. There is no need for an artificial mechanic to determine who's won. We fully expect that some gangs (likely larger ones) will keep the war active for a long time. In our experience with similar mechanics (we've implemented similar systems in several other production games, and learned a lot about the psychology and use of the mechanic) it usually doesn't take long for one side to give in. If that's not the case, and they're enjoying the competition, it's there for the fun.

As for the police, killing someone in a rival gang is not considered legal in any sense. The penalty is a little less harsh than killing another player who's not involved, but there is most definitely a crime involved in either case. The largest difference is the stress mechanic here; rival gangs are always treated as though their members are fully stressed to your own gang.

Everything about the war mechanic is quantifiable" We've learned through years of experience with similar systems, and we've implemented similar mechanics in games in the way you describe, as well as even having only one side need to start the war. Simply put, when you're at war with another gang you can quickly get overwhelmed and that's not fun for the gang on the receiving end. Gangs are social structures at their core, and nobody should be forced to play in a mechanic they don't want to; in reality, war isn't for everyone. Many players won't have a desire to participate in such worldwide PvP. Wars will most often happen in one of two cases: either some sort of rivalry will form between the groups, and war will be declared as a way to punish the other side, or wars will be declared for the ongoing fun of conflict. Remember, you don't need a war declared for rivalries to form. Identity is all about emergent gameplay.

As for the looting of your victims, there are some items which cannot be looted. Items like weapons, on the other hand, can indeed be taken. Keep in mind here that Identity is built with competition in mind, and a cheap and plentiful weapon can be deadly as fast as a rare and powerful weapon. For example, if you've died recently and lost your assault rifle, that'll set you back. However, having a 9mm pistol you had in storage can still be incredibly deadly if used well. Our goal is to make sure that a skilled new player will be competitive.

[JoelKeys 412]

1 hour ago, Paratus said:

Keep in mind here that Identity is built with competition in mind, and a cheap and plentiful weapon can be deadly as fast as a rare and powerful weapon. For example, if you've died recently and lost your assault rifle, that'll set you back. However, having a 9mm pistol you had in storage can still be incredibly deadly if used well. Our goal is to make sure that a skilled new player will be competitive.

 

I like this so much. It always annoyed me when pistols take 14 shots to the chest to kill someone but an automatic AR-15 does the job in 3. 

[quentiam 4]

you said the devblog would go out today. where is it?

[Cstove 374]

33 minutes ago, quentiam said:

you said the devblog would go out today. where is it?

 

 

[MarcoArts 13]

When comes the next insider? You wrote "multiple insiders every month". That was a half month ago. Its not multiple if we have to wait until 22nd of September...

[Cstove 374]

4 hours ago, MarcoArts said:

When comes the next insider? You wrote "multiple insiders every month". That was a half month ago. Its not multiple if we have to wait until 22nd of September...

 

Right now the priority is getting TS done and out to us.

[killerkate888 15]

yah ide rather not read anymore insiders or anything about the ts coming out and what all comes with it until the day it actually is released

"git that outa here"