Biggest Development Flaws

[Shorty 6]

First things first, I've never developed a game before nor am I evenly remotely qualified to but even I can see some big flaws in the development progress and team for Identity and instead of just complaining about it (Which at this stage I could probably do all day) I have some suggestions for them.

 

1. Just release the module in it's current state, as long as it's playable no one is expecting a masterpiece for a pre-alpha build I understand you want to make it perfect so everyone get's hyped about how perfect it is and therefore donate more money but your constant delays are causing all your current fans to turn on you. I know based of everything that's happened so far I can't possibly recommend this game to any of my friends due to the fact we're virtually kept in the dark of progress.

 

2. Take a holiday. Literally shut the entire office down for at least a week and head off some where to stop thinking about all the complaints and instead focus on what you decided to create this game in the first place and how you envisioned it. When you come back have a meeting about you can most effectively reach your vision. To me (As previously stated, not a developer) that means you need to focus on the coding of the game and less on all the assets. Don't get me wrong the game looks great, way way better than what I was expecting, but what's the point if you don't have any gameplay.

 

3. Bring all your social media back to the forms. A lot of us have jobs/study/whatever and don't have time to look everywhere for bits of information. The forums in it's current state is so toxic but if you create a new section literally called Information where you briefly summarise what's been happening I guarantee you everyone will be happier because the way it is at the moment noone knows what's going on. There's no need for having Twitter/Discord/Facebook/Whatever else you have exclusive posts if people want to follow you on those platforms provide them links to the update on your forums.

 

4. Reevaluate your priorities. Currently people who have already pledged are mad, and they're your literal source of income. The community should be your number one priority, even more so than the actual development of the game. A happier community will lead to a larger community, a larger community will lead to more funding to the game and more funding will mean more room for developers and bam, by focusing on the community you've also improved development.

 

5. Acknowledge your mistakes, but more importantly actually learn from them. I understand that a game of this size is no easy task otherwise I'd have been down before but whenever someone makes a complaint on this forum they get attacked for doing so and then almost completely ignored, 99% of people here and complaining because they want this game and they're getting frustrated because they're not being herd and left in the dark. Respond to them if even with a generic message "We understand you're upset and we can definitely do better we plan on doing this so "complaint" isn't a issue anymore." or "We're currently working that issue by doing this"

 

These are my opinions on the current biggest flaws on the development progress of the game if you don't agree with my feel free to say so below I'd love to hear your opinions on what you think they could do better or how I'm wrong. More importantly I'd love the developers to comment on this post maybe some of this has been already incorporated and I didn't know or they plan on following some of this advice.

[Theezakj 50]

i agree! in the beginning i also recommended this game to my friends, one friend even pledged! but now, i would NOT recommend the game at all, because of all these flaws.

What about the dev blog? is it coming in september, together with the dev blog from september? is it maybe coming in october? 

what about that ONE TASK of coding, it takes a month to get one problem solved?? i understand that making a game takes long, but taking a month to get one thing correct and get all the bugs out? wow!

i am really really losing sympathy for this game, and that sucks because i was really hyped for the game but that is really dying down now, and im 100% sure i am not the only person who has this feeling! 

[Rebz 3]

Absolutely, they really need to take these criticisms into consideration.

The atmosphere of the forums has become, without a doubt: toxic. Yet, I really can't blame them and I see where they're coming from.

[LuckyDuck 1,444]

On 18/08/2018 at 3:33 AM, Shorty said:

1. Just release the module in it's current state, as long as it's playable no one is expecting a masterpiece for a pre-alpha build I understand you want to make it perfect so everyone get's hyped about how perfect it is and therefore donate more money but your constant delays are causing all your current fans to turn on you. I know based of everything that's happened so far I can't possibly recommend this game to any of my friends due to the fact we're virtually kept in the dark of progress.

1. The very first part is the worst idea and is what the big game companies set as the standard for games. Second not pre-alpha but alpha build. No one has stated that it will be perfect on the release of the module, however the biggest feature is the feature they are working on and is a must for them to complete before they release the module. There are no more constant delays, there were only 2 delays and so how is it constantly getting delayed? If there was a date then it could be delayed but there is a task tracker instead and so no delay is possible.

On 18/08/2018 at 3:33 AM, Shorty said:

2. Take a holiday. Literally shut the entire office down for at least a week and head off some where to stop thinking about all the complaints and instead focus on what you decided to create this game in the first place and how you envisioned it. When you come back have a meeting about you can most effectively reach your vision. To me (As previously stated, not a developer) that means you need to focus on the coding of the game and less on all the assets. Don't get me wrong the game looks great, way way better than what I was expecting, but what's the point if you don't have any gameplay.

2. 3D artist are not Coders/ programmers. Why should the 3D artists sit idle while we all wait for the programmers to complete the task. Them doing nothing is th worst idea ever IMO because if they create more assets while we wait, in the long run there will be less assets needed to make for the game.

On 18/08/2018 at 3:33 AM, Shorty said:

4. Reevaluate your priorities. Currently people who have already pledged are mad, and they're your literal source of income. The community should be your number one priority, even more so than the actual development of the game. A happier community will lead to a larger community, a larger community will lead to more funding to the game and more funding will mean more room for developers and bam, by focusing on the community you've also improved development.

Yes, but that means a slower development speed and slower means that the community will still get mad. People find reasons to just complain really which is sad.

On 18/08/2018 at 3:33 AM, Shorty said:

5. Acknowledge your mistakes, but more importantly actually learn from them. I understand that a game of this size is no easy task otherwise I'd have been down before but whenever someone makes a complaint on this forum they get attacked for doing so and then almost completely ignored, 99% of people here and complaining because they want this game and they're getting frustrated because they're not being herd and left in the dark. Respond to them if even with a generic message "We understand you're upset and we can definitely do better we plan on doing this so "complaint" isn't a issue anymore." or "We're currently working that issue by doing this"

They have said in the past about there mistakes. Also, they do get a response but because there is a reasonable answer in the response, they decide to complain more anyways.

I will pass this post onwards 

[Kraiyick 35]

On 8/17/2018 at 10:33 PM, Shorty said:

First things first, I've never developed a game before nor am I evenly remotely qualified to but even I can see some big flaws in the development progress and team for Identity and instead of just complaining about it (Which at this stage I could probably do all day) I have some suggestions for them.

 

1. Just release the module in it's current state, as long as it's playable no one is expecting a masterpiece for a pre-alpha build I understand you want to make it perfect so everyone get's hyped about how perfect it is and therefore donate more money but your constant delays are causing all your current fans to turn on you. I know based of everything that's happened so far I can't possibly recommend this game to any of my friends due to the fact we're virtually kept in the dark of progress.

5. Acknowledge your mistakes, but more importantly actually learn from them. I understand that a game of this size is no easy task otherwise I'd have been down before but whenever someone makes a complaint on this forum they get attacked for doing so and then almost completely ignored, 99% of people here and complaining because they want this game and they're getting frustrated because they're not being herd and left in the dark. Respond to them if even with a generic message "We understand you're upset and we can definitely do better we plan on doing this so "complaint" isn't a issue anymore." or "We're currently working that issue by doing this"

 

These are my opinions on the current biggest flaws on the development progress of the game if you don't agree with my feel free to say so below I'd love to hear your opinions on what you think they could do better or how I'm wrong. More importantly I'd love the developers to comment on this post maybe some of this has been already incorporated and I didn't know or they plan on following some of this advice.

 

They can’t release the current version if there’s a flaw that causes a database crash... Don’t understand the logic in the first one.

 

Addressing number 5, your entire point is undermined by the fact that most people who are complaining are complaining based on an emotional response and a general lack of information on what’s currently going on. It’s not that fucking hard to figure out why they’re not releasing the current build immediately or why they’re not releasing the website (I know they have but it was a common complaint before). This isn’t rocket science.

I don’t feel like addressing any of your other points personally but if you’d like me to, I’d be more than willing to.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Kraiyick

[Rebz 3]

17 hours ago, LuckyDuck said:

1. The very first part is the worst idea and is what the big game companies set as the standard for games. Second not pre-alpha but alpha build. No one has stated that it will be perfect on the release of the module, however the biggest feature is the feature they are working on and is a must for them to complete before they release the module. There are no more constant delays, there were only 2 delays and so how is it constantly getting delayed? If there was a date then it could be delayed but there is a task tracker instead and so no delay is possible.

2. 3D artist are not Coders/ programmers. Why should the 3D artists sit idle while we all wait for the programmers to complete the task. Them doing nothing is th worst idea ever IMO because if they create more assets while we wait, in the long run there will be less assets needed to make for the game.

Yes, but that means a slower development speed and slower means that the community will still get mad. People find reasons to just complain really which is sad.

They have said in the past about there mistakes. Also, they do get a response but because there is a reasonable answer in the response, they decide to complain more anyways.

I will pass this post onwards 

 

Thanks for the reply, Lucky. Appreciate it!

[MrSmirnoff 4]

Like I said in another thread all we really need to recreate a basic ARMA Asylum experience is:

vehicles

guns

apple tree / weed field

market

cops

Thats it, that will already give you hours and hours of RP scenarios to have fun in.

[dagtag 201]

6 hours ago, MrSmirnoff said:

Like I said in another thread all we really need to recreate a basic ARMA Asylum experience is:

vehicles

guns

apple tree / weed field

market

cops

Thats it, that will already give you hours and hours of RP scenarios to have fun in.

 

well the point of this game isn't to have another "arma experience"...

Mods only allow you to do so much and asylum wants to give people the full roleplay experience, just implementing everything arma has to offer wont really do much good then now would it.

Edited August 20, 2018 by dagtag

[Cstove 374]

11 hours ago, MrSmirnoff said:

Like I said in another thread all we really need to recreate a basic ARMA Asylum experience is:

vehicles

guns

apple tree / weed field

market

cops

Thats it, that will already give you hours and hours of RP scenarios to have fun in.

 

Identity is going to be way more than  Arma life servers.

[Marius_Rosetta 8]

I disagree with launching the game in its current state, but your other points have positive and constructive criticism. I respect you for not going out of your way to share any hidden anger towards the Developers/game itself. Majority of your other points are, otherwise, truly important for this team to take into consideration. With releasing the game as is right now, though, that would be similar to Life Is Feudal: MMO, where nearly all Steam reviews are negative (although the game itself is a needle in a haystack sort of MMO) and thus not many people are encouraged enough to give it a try. Two different styled MMOs. One (LIF: MMO) which launched into Open Beta/Early Access without the right sort of content and patches/updates (which are done nearly every day now) and one (IdentityRPG) which has the ability to launch into Early Access with the right sort of content, amount of patches/updates, and keep the playerbase and future playerbase thriving. We may not see the same viewpoint on this, but as much as I would love for this game to launch as is, I know it would not be in its best interest in the long-run. But, again, I do respect you for your positive criticism.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Marius_Rosetta

[Shorty 6]

On 8/19/2018 at 10:35 PM, LuckyDuck said:

1. The very first part is the worst idea and is what the big game companies set as the standard for games. Second not pre-alpha but alpha build. No one has stated that it will be perfect on the release of the module, however the biggest feature is the feature they are working on and is a must for them to complete before they release the module. There are no more constant delays, there were only 2 delays and so how is it constantly getting delayed? If there was a date then it could be delayed but there is a task tracker instead and so no delay is possible.

2. 3D artist are not Coders/ programmers. Why should the 3D artists sit idle while we all wait for the programmers to complete the task. Them doing nothing is th worst idea ever IMO because if they create more assets while we wait, in the long run there will be less assets needed to make for the game.

Yes, but that means a slower development speed and slower means that the community will still get mad. People find reasons to just complain really which is sad.

They have said in the past about there mistakes. Also, they do get a response but because there is a reasonable answer in the response, they decide to complain more anyways.

I will pass this post onwards 

 

Lucky I understand you're one of the moderators and have been here a very long time but you constantly defend the developers and almost seem to have a complete bias. But I'm still willing to discuss my opinions with you and in response to your points:

1. According to the development tracker (which they gave us for complete clarity) it says the final task is a User Interface item and that it's just in testing. Which to me sounds like it's functional and is just being tested to work out small kinks. I still stand by my statement of constant delays, you are correct there have been 2 Official specific dates but I also count when they use terms such as "imminent" to be deadlines. I'm currently a student paramedic and when someone's life is in imminent danger that doesn't mean they need treatment a month and a bit later.

2. That's true 3D Artists don't program and from a business perspective that means they have too many artists and not enough programmers/coders. If I own a KFC is there any point in me having 20 people working as cashiers and only 5 cooks or is it more important in having a proper balance?

3. The community is mad already, I'm stating that it should be a huge priority for them to change that. The way I see them doing that is through better communication, in all honesty I feel like I have no idea what's holding back TS release. Officially (The tracker) it's a User Interface test but in reality I've read half a dozen different theories on the forums from the elevator not working for the apartments to a database crash. They've taken a step in the right direction with beachball but I feel like they're really limiting his ability to do his job properly by limiting what he can communicate about.

4. Yeah you're right they have acknowledged mistakes in the past but I genuinely believe they haven't learnt from them, the issues we had way back then are still present today and I'd just like to see some action.

 

Later Edit: I also just want to add, I've got nothing against the developers or moderators or anyone on this site all my complaints are because I feel like they're taking the game is taking a turn in the wrong direction and I really want the game to succeed. By pointing out these faults I'd love to see the developers take action (If they agree with me) and hopefully change things for the better.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Shorty

[LordBenji 210]

Okay I'll add my grain of salt in here.

On 8/17/2018 at 11:33 PM, Shorty said:

Just release the module in it's current state

Just blindly, like that, with game breaking bugs that would literally cause havoc and people complaining about it. Erm nope. Already they've talked about that inventory bug causing the database to crash, that would be catastrophic to be honest. I know they fixed it and working on some wonky elevators.

On 8/17/2018 at 11:33 PM, Shorty said:

Take a holiday

I get it, you want them to take a break, sit back, and think about it for a moment. And what will the developers and artists do in the mean time? One week wasted wouldn't be good when they're working hard to get Town Square fully working. Also, I understand that they have a lot of artist and not so many coders, and it seems like we're overwhelmed with 3D assets. And I'd definitely love it if they can get their hands on some talented programmers, since those are harder to find than 3D artists.

On 8/17/2018 at 11:33 PM, Shorty said:

Bring all your social media back to the forms

I assume you meant forum. Yeah well most of the little updates are on the Discord, it's just easier to ask around there, and the active members will help you out to answer your questions if you have any. And for toxicity, well it's on both the forum and Discord unfortunately.

On 8/17/2018 at 11:33 PM, Shorty said:

Reevaluate your priorities

I totally get it, John is very busy and has a lot on his back. Personally, I think he should focus on delegating his tasks, since it really looks like a burden to be not only programming, but assigning tasks, taking care of business stuff, and he can barely even get some time to work on his insider and dev blog. The team needs a little bit more organization to be honest, and for how long does the public ask for transparency... Public relations... Well I mean we get some information from time to time, when Sean pops in the chat, and poor Brandon, being so busy with account support lately he doesn't even have any time to compile his Twitch clips anymore.

On 8/17/2018 at 11:33 PM, Shorty said:

Acknowledge your mistakes

And that's the reason why there's a tracker. No dates equals no delays for module one. Also they did assume their mistakes, just take the time to read some of the dev blogs. Although, people still ignore and get stuck on some other key words like "imminent", "soon", but you get the point. The problem is that not a lot of people put themselves in John's shoes. He has a ton of stuff to take care of. In the gaming industry, there will be issues arising one after another. Sometimes you can't help it but you're forced to take more time than expected to rework a feature or fix a bug that slipped somewhere. Oh and hey, look what I just found:

On 8/18/2018 at 9:07 AM, Theezakj said:

What about the dev blog? is it coming in september, together with the dev blog from september? is it maybe coming in october?

I hate to say estimates, because it always seems that they take a little bit more time. They guessed Monday, for the insider blog, then postponed it for Tuesday, then Wednesday. And I've read on the Discord that a few days after the insider blog, you should see the dev blog. Here's the YT link that Beach has shared (VOD) https://youtu.be/mlgWENwsri4?t=47m47s

On 8/18/2018 at 9:07 AM, Theezakj said:

what about that ONE TASK of coding

They feel bad for taking so long. But don't forget it's the back end of the user interface. And that's one big important system in the game that needs to work. I know that recently they fixed a bug causing the database to crash, as I've already mentioned in reply to someone else. That thing alone slowed down progression considerably. Their current objective is to fix those elevators. Then we can cross our fingers they don't find anything else.

On 8/19/2018 at 9:16 AM, Rebz said:

The atmosphere of the forums has become, without a doubt: toxic. Yet, I really can't blame them and I see where they're coming from.

I agree with that. But let's see what causes them to be angry. First thing, it takes more time than they expected. Not everyone is very patient unfortunately. Also the delays, no one likes them, even John doesn't like them. Then the lack of awareness, well let me explain that one a little bit. Sometimes I see people jumping in and simply saying that the game is taking years, why is it not out, and blah blah blah. I'm personally guessing they didn't do any research, or that they didn't get implied in the development. And by implied, I mean by actively looking on the forum or on the Discord, reading what the developers and moderators say, in other words, just basically reading all the little updates (without talking about those assets they keep showing off lol).

I bet some people haven't heard that the physical layout of Town Square has been rebuilt three times in the past years, and that they remade character models multiple time, and the user interface was also rebuilt (since they used an obsolete software before).

But well, of course there's always those guys that... I think are extreme cases, overly dramatic, really angry, speaks their emotions and doesn't think twice about what they say.

On 8/20/2018 at 3:33 AM, MrSmirnoff said:

Like I said in another thread all we really need to recreate a basic ARMA Asylum experience is [...]

Nah nah nah, I'll stop you there. I came here for Identity, not Altis Life. Identity is a cop vs criminal game that will redefine the MMORPG genre. I'm not interested into an heavily modded army game. And let's not talk about how people could abuse it and the amount of toxicity... I personally haven't played it, because I've heard some bad stuff about it.

And oof that's one big long reply which took me quite some time to write.