As the title says People need to learn and understand. When it comes to game development people either complain that nothing is getting done because the devs are always communicating with the forums and backers etc or people are complaining because the opposite is happening where the devs and team are working hard but aren't saying much. Too many people want their cake and to eat it and it doesn't happen period. For all those saying the game is a scam etc you're wrong and that's a blatant fallacy, the devs delivered town square when everyone said they wouldn't, they added more things earlier than they should to appease people. Hell they're on pretty good time all things considered yet people are constantly complaining and finding things to moan about. I've barely been on the forums in the last year because I don't need to constantly keep checking progress because I know that the devs are working on this and are doing everything they can. I'm sorry to say but it's the community who are the toxic problem and not the devs, my words may be harsh but they are certainly true and we have seen it time and time again. People you really need to stop giving the devs a hard time, and the mods even more so. You wouldn't want to be treated this way if it was you, so please give them all a break, they're only human and they're trying their best, lay off them and do something productive while you wait.

No denial about it You see unlike most people I actually bothered to look into how kickstarter works and how long the process can be etc I knew what was involved when I pledged and I'm happy to wait a lot longer The only people who are in denial are the ones who pledged blindfolded and now regret it because they can't get a refund for a game they thought was full. In future use your brain and research a bit before spending your money

I think the best approach is to make an enquiry to the mods on here by tagging lucky as he's very good with answering questions. Failing that the discord is the second best place to ask questions. If you can get In touch with the mods or devs and ask why there isn't a changelog then you'll get the answers you need. There's a reason for everything, we just need to have faith and trust

I don't know why there isn't a changelog, I can't answer that because I'm neither a dev or mod. 2016 was a long time ago, they've made good progress since and only failed to deliver on two official release dates, the rest were all hopes and speculation but not official dates. If you presume the worst about everything you'll drive yourself mad with paranoia and that's not worth it. None of us know what is going on but the game is still being updated and the devs are slowly adding more to it. The swat module was estimated to be released late 2019 so we still have plenty of time, if the devs don't meet that estimated date then people can ask questions. The devs try to be in touch with the forums but let's face it, it's game development and it usually never works because they need to get on with the job. This is a team of no more than 20 last I checked, this isn't a team with the luxury of 200 people and a multi million budget. Have some faith and just chill out, realistically we haven't had much to be seriously concerned about and I think it's best to just let the devs go on and do their thing. Do I think they should be more communicative with the player base? Of course I do. Do I think there's some deep hidden plot going on behind the scenes? No of course not and I'm as paranoid as you get. When the devs have something of importance to tell us we will be the first to know

I have no issue with addressing genuine concerns, I understand just as much as others that we have all pledged to this game, regardless of the amount of money. I understand that people are concerned about the time length and such. But the way some people on this forum have behaved is unacceptable and immature. I see people accusing the devs and team of scamming us out of money which isn't the case and there is no evidence to suggest that's their motivation. I see people complaining about how the game will never be complete, this is a huge project that cannot be done instantly, I need not to remind people the town square had to be rebuilt three times at least before they could start this properly. I see people taking to the mods and acting like they aren't honest or don't answer but then I see the mods respond as fast as they can and those same people still aren't satisfied. I have nothing against genuine concerns, but people should express those concerns in a more positive and calm approach instead of assuming the worst. From my perspective I should have the most rights to be concerned as I pledged 500 dollars or rather the pound sterling equivalent but I'm not complaining nor even worried about the situation because I trust these devs and mods. If you can't trust the devs then the project isn't for those that can't trust them. The devs have given a pretty fair timeline for the path of progression and 2021 seems a reasonable time to aim for full release if each module takes a year plus beta

Big difference between a genuine complaint and incessant bitching for the sake of it. Whether you like it or not the majority of people complaining on here are the latter and frankly those people need to grow up. I'm not talking about people who think something is wrong and then get corrected. I'm talking about people who constantly bitch and moan like there's no tomorrow and no matter how many times the mods try to explain things they just keep going on for the sake of it. So many damn people don't understand how game development works or even understands that a small company such as asylum entertainment cannot just conjure up a masterpiece at the snap of a finger. What's even worse is that some people have the nerves and sheer audacity to throw accusations towards the mods and devs without any proof and don't even apologize. So yeah people need to learn the difference between addressing an actual complaint when the mods or devs have actually done something wrong not just moaning because the game isn't finished.

Even after the game is complete and launches after beta there will still be people finding something to complain about regardless of how good the game is. I wish people would drop it already and just let the devs get on with the job, if the devs need to tell us news either good or bad they will. The game is on track and the beta is expected In 2021 with the full game launching most likely the year after. I've never had a chance to play the game so far because I underestimated my laptops specs and thought that because I have the specs to run gta v and Arma III on standard basic settings that I'd be able to run identity. I'm Saving up for a powerful gaming rig that's beefed up to high hell and will have a 2080 graphics card so when I get to play town Square I'll be able to tell all the haters that it's better than they think

I did try explaining several times that it isn't illegal or against the terms of kickstarter to amass funds after the project has been greenlighted and is successful during kickstarter. I also tried explaining as pointed out above that identity/asylum have always been honest about the goal and funding and KS were satisfied with that approach. Some people just want to complain and slander for the sake of it no matter how many times you explain it or show evidence. I doubt the people who insist on complaining will see things any different but people need to be told nonetheless

I look into things deeply, there's a difference that doesn't mean delusion by any means. Raw might Have been backed by a large number of people but that doesn't change the fact that KS feels they were a huge concern and broke several rules of KS policy. I remain of the same stance that raw clearly broke several rules and didn't produce a clear plan nor were they honest about their financial plan, they said one thing then said another during KS and asylum didn't, they didn't announce at all that they needed extra funding they just continued to receive more funds after KS. I really don't know what else to say, I've said everything there is for me to say, I've debated all there is to debate about this and as such I don't see this going anywhere further other than around in circles. I hope you'll come round and see that identity will be a great game but alas if not then I wish you good luck in whatever you do

I'm not a biased fanboy, I acknowledge that asylum are far from perfect and have fallen short in the past with the release dates but have always been fair in criticism and have played the waiting game. I never suspected this game to be a scam and I've always lived in comfort so to speak that that's true and judging by the progress I can see that they're on schedule. Raw probably was and is a scam, I believe that according to KS policy and rules that raw was in direct violation of said policy and so was rightly suspended if not outright banned. Asylum and identity aren't the same by any means. I have always believed that those who directly call this game a scam will be proven wrong and that this game will flourish given time and I think that's true. Raw is a valuable lesson of why you shouldn't immediately back a game, I backed identity because it had already been backed by a huge portion of people and I'm pretty sure it was after the backing goal had been met that I backed it, I even backed the full 500 but that wasn't immediately.

I gave you evidence in the form of an actual quote from a real interview, you may not agree with that evidence but it's still evidence. It's clear to me you seem to be more swayed towards raw despite the fact that raw hasn't even passed KS or even started proper development for that matter whereas identity has already launched it's first module and is working towards it's second with the third module expected to be launched next year and the beta following the year after. Whether you agree with identity and asylum is irrelevant to me, I can see which project is becoming a reality and that's from an unbiased perspective, you on the othehand seem to be biased towards raw no matter what. I have nothing else to add to this debate, I've offered my opinion and my evidence to back up that asylum were honest and that raw was suspended for a reason, you seem to be basing your opinion about raw on emotion somewhat rather than facts.

Then you will have to look into the case yourself. I have read into it and as far as KS is concerned raw was a major concern and identity was not. There were complaints of recycled assets and the potential breaking of German law but I can't confirm. I've argued my case and I believe that once again if asylum had done anything wrong we would have heard by now and as we haven't they're innocent Case closed, if you truly believe that no matter what they're guilty then this game isn't for you.

KS know their own policy and by all reasoning and logic they were satisfied with the progress and such of identity. KS would not have allowed identity to go on had they done something dishonest. I don't know the deeper mechanisms of this, all I know is that identity was open about their plans and goals and KS allowed it. It's not like asylum have been dishonest or anything towards the backers. They only backtracked on two official release dates because of genuine and real reasons and so far they've done everything they said plus more. The bottom line is that asylum hasn't done anything illegal and that's what needs to be addressed. My main argument is that people shouldn't suggest that asylum is dishonest without evidence and from everything that's been said plus the quote I provided I believe that asylum was honest in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of KS.

Because again they satisfied KS. KS want to know that a project can be made clear which it was and that all the money they make DURING Kickstarter will be sufficient to get the project moving. When asylum said we'll have everything we need they told the truth, that 150k was enough to get the project started. Asylum never said we'll use this 150k and only this 150K to get the game finished because again you cannot expect a game of this caliber to be made by a company of this size with just 150K. Once again KS do not care if a project needs more money after KS. Asylum did not backtrack on anything during KS nor did they slap a plan together last Minute in a hurry. I'm not sure what else I can say but asylum did it right and raw didn't.

They could have worded it better sure, but they didn't lie about it. What they should have said is we'll have everything we need to get the process started after which we'll rely on private and backed funding to keep the proces going. They satisfied KS hence why they had a successful campaign. As far as I'm concerned they broke no rules and were not dishonest about their intentions. Just because raw was suspended it doesn't mean that asylum is suspicious, I really would just relax about the whole thing. Look at it this way, identity is slowly becoming a real game and raw isn't, again I know who'd I back. The biggest key difference is that asylum didn't need more money during KS, it is during KS that makes the difference. Raw needed more money and asylum didn't, what happens after isn't KS problem.

Yes it is, asylum stated that if they meet that goal they'll have the funds to get the project started and then completed which they're doing. The difference between asylum and raw is that raw said they only needed 79k then changed their minds during kickstart and didn't produce confidence. Asylum on the other hand clarified what they needed and that they would be able to ensure the project is finished after which they are sticking to doing that. Kickstarter doesn't care about what happens after a project is successful in Kickstart, only what happens during the Kickstart. Asylum met the goal and presented a clear and explained goal, they were approved by KS and have since gone on to further their goal by legitimate means. Raw wasn't honest, didn't have a clear plan and had to announce during KS that they needed a lot more money, I know who'd I'd back. Also you cannot expect a small team to make a huge game with just 150K, that's why they needed KS to get the ball rolling and then get funding through other legal means after KS. Raw should have been more realistic and honest and they weren't simple as that. I hope that clarifies any doubts about asylum or identity.

Because on kickstarter you have to have a goal in order to be deemed realistic. Asylum set the goal of 150k because that's what they thought they needed to get off the ground and in a sense they did, they just didn't know they'd have to redo town square three times. As for RAW they probably broke some rules of conduct and were banned, I don't think it's about the goal of money I think it's about how they got that money and if RAW used dishonest means to get it then I see why they got banned. Far as I can see asylum got all their backers honestly and didn't lie or cheat or steal. This is a quote from a website discussing the suspension “Our rules and guidelines ask that creators seek to raise the amount of money needed to bring a project to completion and fulfill all rewards," said a Kickstarter representative. “This creator stated in an update that they would need to raise additional funds outside of Kickstarter to complete the game. We require projects to be honest and clearly presented, and this project failed to meet that standard.” RAW had amassed $193,332 from 3,983 when the campaign was suspended, easily beating its funding target of $78,818. In the project FAQ, KillerWhale curiously admitted it would be impossible to realize its ambitions with $78,818, but explained its has other sources of funding. The dev team also conceded that the entire campaign was bundled together in a hurry, both of which are confessions that hardly inspire confidence. "Of course we need a lot more than $79,000. The minimum comfortable amount is about $300,000. We said earlier that there will be several fundraising campaigns," reads the FAQ. "We had a very tight deadline to prepare our Kickstarter campaign. You might think: 'You have been developing the game for 2.5 years and could not prepare properly for such an important event?' Yes, unfortunately we didn't have a chance to prepare as we could. This is due to delays, timing forecasts mistakes, and several serious life circumstances." In other words asylum said they needed 150k and were able to get the project off the ground, getting additional funds after is fine, raw said they needed 79k and then said during the Kickstart they needed more which is considered dishonest. Raw was dishonest, asylum wasn't.

Saying it feels like a scam and calling it a scam is no different, just slightly different wording but the main point remains the same. As for identy in Kickstarter as far as I'm aware the only rules are that as long as identy meets the Kickstarter goal they can get funding outside of Kickstart. It's not illegal for devs to sell in game items to help with funding as other games have done the same thing. Asylum probably gets it's funds from private funding as well as the backers who paid and the new ones who pledge toward the game. Like I said before if asylum had broken any laws we would have heard about it by now therefore it seems fair to say that they haven't broken any laws. The team have a genuine goal and dream, it's just taking a lot longer than they had hoped.

Spreading false information is what you're doing. You're calling this a scam when it isn't and without solid evidence. You're also saying that identity/aslum entertainment is breaking the law when you haven't provided any proof that they are doing that. Just because this process is taking a long time it doesn't means the devs are scamming us or are criminals. The above poster is correct, like all other people who call this a scam you are just blowing hot air over nothing. If people want to call this game a scam and the devs scammers by all means that's your opinion, but at least provide credible hard evidence to support your claim. When I say evidence I mean hard actual evidence not just anecdotal experiences because for all we know anyone could pluck something out of thin air and it's a lie. Furthermore if people on this forum are so convinced that it's a scam why are they all still here? If they're so convinced it's a dead project why stick around? Don't tell me it's because of some divine honest intention to help others because that's garbage, it's because people know it's not a scam and just want to cause trouble. All I can really say is that a lot of people were expecting a full game at launch and were disappointed, more so because they didn't read the big note that says this is an alpha project where it's split into three modules before beta. TlDR: don't back a game unless you have full facts and if you don't bother to have the full facts don't call the devs a scammer because you're unsatisfied.

If asylum entertainment broke any laws we'd have already heard about it by now. Please don't share or spread false information or any information unless you can 100% prove it with credible and solid evidence. The team are doing their best and they're trying to make a game, the last thing these guys need is a load of people saying things that aren't true and it's slander and/or libel and if people start going down that road, asylum would be well within their rights to sue for libel if any information spread is found to be false. Not an expert at law but please don't share false information, it pays to be kind.

Sorry but you don't know anything about the devs and the work they're doing, at least not on the inner scale of things. A big part of game development is bugs coming and going, it happens and it gets dealt with.

I can't help but feel that people still haven't learned by now how game development and Kickstarted projects work. I also can't help but feel that a huge portion of backers didn't read the terms properly and thought it would be a huge game on day one and were disappointed. Unfortunately a lot of people want instant gratification without waiting. I've spent the last 6-12 months not even bothering to check to forums, not because I don't care for the game but because I know full well that John vanderzwet and the team have everything running ship shape and to the best of their ability. People really need to learn to chill and have patience. It's for this reason I worry that some of the people playing identity might not even be mentally mature enough to actually take role playing seriously.

And yet here I stand. So clearly the devs don't take what I said to be insulting or flaming.

Mine hasn't been deleted because the mods can see I'm not explicitly insulting someone. I've kept within the terms of the forums simple as that.

So you perfectly understand that all the modules are standalone pieces of the game, are not designed to be a full game Individually and you also understand that it will be a few years before the game truly enters beta phase?